Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I haven't read anything about housing two Savs together. I have two, 3 month olds and want to separate them because of the behavior I've been observing.
One is a little apprehensive still, will run and hide when I enter the room, does not like to be touched whatsoever and will whip its tail/lunge to bite me. The other seems pretty comfortable with me, continues to bask when I enter the room, and will freely walk up my arm to sit on my shoulder. I have separated a few times during feeding as they bite each other hard when going for the same roach or steal from the other's mouth. They have been together since I purchased them at 1 week after hatch. If I need to separate that is not a problem. I just need to know for my plans to build either one massive wall enclosure (16') or two separate large ones (8').
Does anyone have any pics of an outside enclosure for their monitors?
At what age do they reach sexual maturity?

Appreciate your response,
Sarah.

I seperated my savs recently because of aggressive fighting but am playing it by ear as to if I will build one cage or two when they reach adult size. Mine are different sizes so...I pretty much had to at this stage.

>>They have been together since I purchased them at 1 week after hatch.
>>Appreciate your response,
>>Sarah.

Where did you find captive bred Savs?
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Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org

Sarah, I have witnessed dominance in all of the lizards I have kept and bred for many years now, this goes from bearded dragons,frilled dragons to helodemas and dwarf monitor lizards. When you keep 2 lizards/monitors,ect. in tha same enclosure they compete for food,basking and shelter in a cage you provide for them. In the wild they have enough room to move to new locations and truly become what they are meant to be without oppression of a cagemate. There are male lizards that will act like females when kept with dominant males and this is a survival thing for them but wouldnt happen if kept seperate. All lizards,monitors and even anoles are territorial and command a certain amount of space,food,shelter. Better to keep seperate and if breeding pairs are kept together you have to watch the males do not stress out the females.
Good luck, Robert www.herphatch.com

Mike, they are not cb but sadly ch --
I purchased 2; one for my nephew and one for myself. I have to admit it was an impulse buy; placed into the palm of my hand, hardly as big as my index finger and stayed this way, this cute, curled up in my hand, the entire time I walked around the herp store and all the while I kept asking "how big? I don't believe it.." Little did I know then that what I thought was "cute" all curled up "sleeping" was this poor hatchlings way to avoid ME. This is my aggressive one. The other one that I got for my nephew, well...I became very attached to after these 3 months so I now have two. And I can't wait for them to grow....I am excited! It has already been such an awesome experience to raise them, to observe them thus far I cannot tell you.

Bob -- I should KNOW this but I always question my own judgement far too much. I have been breeding geckos for 15 years (20 species) and after reading your reply I thought, "how stupid, you know this"...well, geckos - lizards, the same basic rules apply here. If not for your reply, I wouldn't have snapped out of my stupid state..thanks.

I read something after posting this about how to properly work with my aggressive one (or rather how to properly leave it be). I was going about it entirely wrong and thought there must be something more to this behaviour after 3 months time. And I was right...but I had to look far and wide for the info. I also have much work to do -- TWO cool ass retreats inside (I always wanted to add something interesting to that wall) and next Spring an outdoor garden just for them.

Sarah.

.Sarah, we all get a little tunnel vision at times, the best thing to do when looking for answers is think about the lizard [or any animal for that matter] and their natural historic range and the choices they have in the wild and new territories are NEVER without question for a subordinate lizard. In captivity we raise the stress levels by removing such important choices. Another biggie is natural UVB, whether they need it or not [larger monitors and helodemas do fine without it] it may effect their physiological well being as UV does in humans. An outdoor garden sounds cool and at least they can both bask the same. I would just make sure to provide some cooling shelters so you dont bake them and a deep footer so they cant dig their way out.
Good luck with them:} Robert

Keeping monitors outdoors can be difficult,as I am finding out right now.I keep a Nile in an outdoor enclosure,and there are so many to watch out for.One is the surface temperatures it may only be 80-85 degrees out but I still get surface temps of over 150,so you need to make sure you have a cool retreat for them.I also have my cage set up so during the hottest part of the day it is in the shade.

The second thing you need to consider,is that
exposer to natural sunlight has some effects on them.My Nile from the time I got him would stand and fight.I moved him outdoors and I have had to make several adjustments just to get him settled in.I had a lot of trouble gating him to eat the first couple of weeks.

Another thing to consider is what part of the country you live in,I live in North Carolina we have High humity most of the summer.But if you go further north it not as humid.If you live in Arizona or New Mexico it to dry and the day time summer temps are far to high.I use to live in Boston and I would never keep a monitor outdoors there.

greg

Good points Greg, I give some of my dwarfs a choice and have seen them bask in 55F sun rather then stay in a much warmer indoor part of the cage with artificial light. They know about UV and the proof is in the pudding with what I have seen and where they come from how can it not be? As far as where you live the sun rays are the same, the differance is the heat it generates depending where on earth you live. And yes, it may have been 55F but when you sit in that sun it gets much warmer, shade for all herps is a must anywhere you live so they can cool down if they want. For the larger monitors it really is not so important as they get D-3 and calcium from the whole body prey they eat [adult mice,rats,ect] but dwarfs that eat small pink and half grown rodents occasionally and insects the sun is all good. What I do is put out some black rocks [which they use on cooler days] and some that are nearly white [for hot days], they both maintain different temps because dark colors warm up more.A little bit of thought goes a long way in your final results.

Hello Bob,

I keep lizards together if I can. If they don't act aggressively towards each other, then they stay together. I feel a little stress is better then a life with no stimulation what so ever. A lizards by itself, in an enclosure, gets no real mental stimulation.

I have two ackies in an enclosure with heat on one side and a Repti-sun 10.0 tube light on the rest. I have a branch where the ackies can bask under the UVB light if they so choose. I never see them basking there. The only time they leave the warm stacks is when exploring. I do dust the crickets with vitamins and calcium with D3. Maybe your monitors use the outdoors on 55f, because they can. Maybe they'd rather be outside, stimulating their senses, than being in a motionless environment inside? Just a thought

Tim

I had many discussions early last year with Bert Langerwerf, a couple months before he died, concerning outdoor enclosures...how deep, placement, and making it raccoon, skunk, possum and cat proof, as well as dealing with fire ants. I live just outside of Austin, TX where average humidity is around 50% and the area I'll be putting them in has dappled sunlight. I think it's critical for herps to have visual stimulation once in a while. The weather will dictate whether or not they go out. And even with trying to vermin proof it, I do not believe I will leave them out at night, but rather retreat to their indoor enclosure. Who knows, I may even rig up a misting system in one corner. I have several ideas to play with til February.

Sarah.

On the 55F days it is my belief they are enjoying the sun as they sit their and bask, then do a little exploring. And for the record I do not keep all monitors individually but only until I know the sexes and how to set them up, I have an old pair 1.1 of V.pilbarensis that has been housed together since summer 2002 and they are fine, the problem is when you have young monitors unsexed in groups you will develop subordinate males, perhaps hermaprodites to? and in the wild they can make way to become prime breeders by staking out new territory rather than have a bully in their face 24/7. Just a little common sense applied here.
Robert