Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I'm thinking ahead here . . .

I finally have some 3-4 year old thayeri that are large enough and heavy enough to breed next spring, and was wondering if there is any consensus on what the necessary or optimal range of temps is for brumation that yields viable sperm and fertile eggs. Some other questions are:

how long a cooling period is preferable?
is uninterrupted darkness during cooling critical to success?
any other tips?

Thanks in advance for your sage advice.

Tom Corley

Tom,

I brumated two males and three females at 58F last year. I got clutches of 13, 13 and 10 eggs out of the 3 pairings with only two eggs overall that were slugs.

I stopped feeding Nov 1st, and started brumation at Thanksgiving. I brought them up after Valentine's day. I checked on them once a week, and I put fresh water in every other week. I used a converted wine cooler to maintain the temps and covered it with a beach towel.

Hope that helps.
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God Bless Evolution.

I would also go with the total dark theory, simply can't hurt. I believe some others on here have some sage advice, I know I couldn't get mine down cool enough this year and had all infertile eggs, I am attributing that to keeper failure, DOH! But I believe my south Texas winters just won't do it, I need to get much cooler, especially for the males, IMO.
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Todd Hughes

Thanks, Todd. Sounds like you might want to try the wine cooler route. Up here is Pennsylvania it still gets plenty cold (but less so than when I was kid here), so hopefully I can find a corner somewhere in my basement that is cooler than the steady 60 degrees F that it always seem to be. And I agree we all channel Homer from time to time. "DOH" has been in my daily vocabulary ever since the first season of the Simpsons. Now I think I could go for a nice cold Duff beer . . .

Tom

>>I would also go with the total dark theory, simply can't hurt. I believe some others on here have some sage advice, I know I couldn't get mine down cool enough this year and had all infertile eggs, I am attributing that to keeper failure, DOH! But I believe my south Texas winters just won't do it, I need to get much cooler, especially for the males, IMO.

Todd....

I am going to build a foam insulated box around my A/C unit...Much like the one I had lofted in my old snake room....But this time I am going to be smarter and hibernated them on the cold concrete floor.....Cold air does fall, right?...LOL
Do you also think the males seem to need the lower temps more than the females?.....I do too....
I didn't even cool mine off this year (but they did get a natural light cycle) and had two females double clutch infertile eggs.....
If the females are producing eggs I take it the males didn't do their part....
Is this true? It's just my point of view..
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

I don't know for sure John, some good peeps in Florida say they don't brumate and do fine, but that's my take on it as of now, it is too hot and humid down here, I'm going with very cool, very dark,and a bit drier...?
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Todd Hughes

Thanks VERY much -- this is helpful information. I'm sure that some would say that 58 F is not cool enough, but you have provided evidence to the contrary. I will cover my brumating animals next fall . . .

Tom

Craig, BTW, the second of my three posts above was intended for you (it showed up under Todd's post).

Great hatch rate Craig...I do much the same as you except for the wine cooler thing, but I have heard of people using them....

Funny...years ago I heard Thanksgiving to Valentines and have used it for ever....It seems to be the right duration.....

The last feeding for my snake takes place around November 1.....around the 20th or so I turn off their heat.....On Thanksgiving I put them in their hibernation chamber.....

I build a hibernation chamber with its own air conditioner..I play with the temps of the A/C till it holds below 60F..It is a must down here is south Texas...

The temps seem optimal between 55 and 60...So yeah I would say 58 is sufficient...It worked for you.....LOL

I am thinking of adding a natural light cycle to mine throughout brumation this year....with the use of a sky light.....

There are stories of people not even cooling breeders but rather used a natural light cycle and had successful breedings...

I figure if I can keep temps under 60F and give them a natural light cycle it may work well......But I may just go with the dark thing again.....

I too change the water frequently...Weekly usually.....sometimes less often....

I remove them from the hibernation chamber on Valentines Day and let them get acclimated to room temps (72F or so) for two days....Then I turn on the heat strips...After the heat has been on for a day I start feeding.....Feb. 18th or so.....

I am also thinking of brumating the pairs together this year so a window of opportunity will not be missed....But I am leery of one male since he is an aggressive feeder....Maybe the cold will shut down that urge...We'll see....Maybe I don't even need to do this...I've had good luck before without doing this so why risk it, huh?

Then there's snakes like Michelle's that never see temps below 60F and still breed......LOL

BTW Tom....That is a great looking Thayeri you pictured in the thread starter.....I really like the bold black borders and it is very clean....Hardly any speckling at all.....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Thanks for the compliment, John. It's a 2006 female from Russ Bates, and she's always been a looker. Her colors still pop, though she has developed some more side speckling in the last year. Eats like there's no tomorrow, but I won't try to breed her until spring 2011 at the earliest . . .

Tom

Below is a female from John Cherry's Laredo line. She's an '05 and is hefty enough to breed next spring. Question is -- which male should I pair her with? Or maybe breed her with two males to increase my chances for good eggs in case one of them shoots blanks! Plenty of time to think about it . . .

In Iowa its easy, it helps to have a 106yr old house too

Stop feeding them for 2 weeks maybe even 3...
Throw them in the basement 63*-57* in Nov...
Check them every now and then...
Wake them up at 72 degrees after 3 months...
Feed them HEAVY for 2-3 weeks...
Keep the males in the females tubs always except for feeding...
Now watching the mating, pull the eggs... cook um...
And just like magic you will have babies by june...
After the female lays feed her heavy for 2 weeks and then put the male back in for double clutching.

SET IT AND FORGET IT... 40 babies this year...

THANKS Hope that helps some people.

CHRIS FLOWERS

MIDWESTERN MONSTERS

Thanks for the info, Chris. You have lots of evidence that you're doing it right! It's interesting to hear that you don't get your animals much below 60 and your males are shooting loaded ammo (not blanks). Could you please clarify: do you keep the pairs together all the time, or only during brumation and mating season, or only during mating season, or some other way?

Tom

Below is a male thayeri from Bob Hansen. He's gone quite greenish as he is maturing . . .

I keep them together durning breeding season only. After they have layed I take them back out and fatten them up and throw in the dungeon (basement) again for winter.
MIDWESTERN MONSTERS

thanks

>>I keep them together durning breeding season only. After they have layed I take them back out and fatten them up and throw in the dungeon (basement) again for winter.
>>MIDWESTERN MONSTERS

Chris...
I hope you have the same results next season after having them all in your care for an entire year.....

Must be nice to be able to cool with out an air conditioner....
Naaaaahhhhh it I-O-WA...yuck....lol
Ya'll get that snow stuff up there dont ya? We had that once in recorded history hear....4 years ago on Xmas....8" on the white sandy beaches.....
Hell....If we have frost on our car in the morning school's cancelled and half the city shuts down......This happens about once every other year......LOL
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."