Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Joe,
Can you share the story behind the amel thayeri that was produced some years ago?
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Shannon has the whole story complete with photo's.
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Michelle
www.AssortedSerpents.com
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

There was an amel produced in some chance captive breeding I think back in the 80s (I think) and it was raised to a small adult and paired with a larger mate...

The amel was eaten instead of being bred.

And so ends the story.

I used to be able to find a scan of an old magazine clipping with a picture of the amel. If I find it again I will link it here, or I would hope anybody else that finds it will do the same.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

yes that is the story, and the snake was a beauty.

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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Do you by any chance remember how old the snake was in that photo?
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POSITIVE THOUGHTS, POSITIVE RESULTS

it was a young snake just coming into breeding age.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

ok i was just curious if it was more on the hatchling size or adult size, thanks
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POSITIVE THOUGHTS, POSITIVE RESULTS

would have been nice to have the amel flavor in a non-hybrid.... but then again they look pretty enough without missing a color to me.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

I'm with you on that one, Lance...but... when you see one in your hands...LOL!
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Todd Hughes

>>yes that is the story, and the snake was a beauty.
>>

Joe,
Was this snake produced in Austin, TX in the early 80's?
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

>>yes that is the story, and the snake was a beauty.
>>

Dang....That snake looks MUCH better than the hybrids...
Does anyone have a pic of an adult amel thayeri hybrid?
I've seen Pro Breeders' in person back in 2004 in Daytona...
I think there are some nicer looking ones now....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Hi guys

adult Leonis, Thayeri x Ruthvens

Enjoy

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Paul.

Uk-Hybrids.com

>>Hi guys
>>
>>adult Leonis, Thayeri x Ruthvens

Thanks Paul....

Man that is "SCARY CLOSE" looking to a Thayeri.....
It is gorgeous....
I'm still afraid that when someone else hatches out an amel thayeri from their so called "pure" lines....
Many out there will not believe him/her.....
Especially when there are such animals as the one Paul just posted.....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

I second your post…As beautiful as they are they are still the unfortunate curse of hybrids…

Later,
Jim.
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CSRAJim

>>John,
>>
>>I second your post…As beautiful as they are they are still the unfortunate curse of hybrids…

I was wondering where you've been.....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

Still here man but I've been very busy these past few weeks (and will be for many more) working on "stuff"...

I read the forum from time to time...Like today while I'm on my lunch break...

Tha European "hybrid" is a very nice specimen but, very unfortunate to see on three accounts off the top of my head...

1) Eventually, in captivity, an amel thayeri/greeri/mexicana will be produced from very reputable genetics-Which will result in immediate questioning.

2) Why do this in the first place? They are already "variable" in their own right...The "box of thayeri eggs" comes to mind.

3) Eventually the progeny from these "hybrids" will find their way into captive husbandry (if not already) and we'll see them advertised for sale AS thayeri...Which will further "muddy the waters"...IF they are accurately represented as being what they are, that's cool...But we both know that someone out there will sell them as something they are not (buyer beware).

In the big picture, we're ALL herpers under assualt by numerous "entities" out there and therefore, we need to stick together...On the other hand, if someone deliberately missrepresents an animal (by omitting information to the buyer), then that is fraud IMO.

Yes, I know that this can be completely accidental as the progeny are sold "down-the-line" (the keeper honestly doesn't know) but at some point in time, someone deliberately withheld the information...This was the point of the fraud IMO and everything after that was accidental...

The longer I do this, I know that within the progeny of each clutch, several of the neonates will strongly resemble the parents and usually several of the grand parents...Generally speaking. I think you get the idea here.

Later,
Jim.

PS: In addition to preservation (THE PRIMARY REASON), this is one of the reasons for my core breeding project (symbiotic side-project)...To SEE how the 1/8th genotype is reflected in the F2 generation neonates (and later, the 1/16th genotype at F3)...I've seen glimpses already (which gave me the idea) but I need to see more about this for myself...Hope that makes sense.
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CSRAJim

All makes perfect sense...and I agree 110%...And understand completely....(You weren't talking above me....lol)
Neat little project you got going Jim....

Regards,
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

Thanks man...I have no idea where it will go but, that's part of the journey man...To help me understand and learn about them...I'm just trying to keep up with what they teach me and although they are simple minded animals (beautiful as well), their "instincts" are far superior to mine...So I have to make notes over time and then compare them each year to what has already happened to "learn" about them...

It's more than just being able to keep them going as a species in captivity...It's their history as well...I can't spend either time or money studying them in-situ...So for me, this will have to do as my little micro-habitat(s) at home and enjoy what the "legends" of the mexicana's wrote about in their papers from their field work...Thanks to Bob Hansen for his wonderful "resource bibliography"...Without Bob's work there, I'd be waaaaaay behind in that regard.

They are a box a thayeri eggs after all...Ha! Ha!

Later,
Jim.
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CSRAJim

I emailed you gmail... did u get it bro?

MIDWESTERN MONSTERS

>>I emailed you gmail... did u get it bro?
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>>MIDWESTERN MONSTERS

Yo Chris, I'll try to get you and John hooked up today with those changes... thanks.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Did you all know that the amel thayeri was produced in 1993 in Austin, TX....It even had a sibling that was normal looking.
The parent female laid 3 eggs....One was infertile and the other two hatched out......an amel and a 'het'...

I wonder what happened to the 'het'....
Anyone have any ideas?
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

poss het female produced in the same small clutch.The Amel was killed by the poss het and then later the poss het died.What I am not sure of is what happened to the "normal" adults????

L8r
Shannon

>>poss het female produced in the same small clutch.The Amel was killed by the poss het and then later the poss het died.What I am not sure of is what happened to the "normal" adults????
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>>L8r
>>Shannon

LOL...We posted at the same time....

BTW...I got my info from Shannon guys......
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

>>poss het female produced in the same small clutch.The Amel was killed by the poss het and then later the poss het died.What I am not sure of is what happened to the "normal" adults????
>>
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>>L8r
>>Shannon

I wonder too what happened to the adult pair.....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."