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i understadn the basics albino, hypo, and anery... i also under the concept of simple recessive as far as het and pos het... but i was looking around in the classifieds and i allways see adds for gost, and snow then it gets into DH and TH and i start to get a little lost there.

now i though a ghost was a hypo x anery cross... and a snow is hypo x albino...?? is that right? and could someone be kinda enough to explain this double and triple het for me... or point me to an article or web page something thanks
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Hey Stephen,

Actually a snow is both homozygous for albino and anery. It's not hypo and anery (that's "sunglow."

Not sure exactly what you're asking as far as the double/triple het, can you provide an example?

Thanks,
Ed

>>i understadn the basics albino, hypo, and anery... i also under the concept of simple recessive as far as het and pos het... but i was looking around in the classifieds and i allways see adds for gost, and snow then it gets into DH and TH and i start to get a little lost there.
>>
>>now i though a ghost was a hypo x anery cross... and a snow is hypo x albino...?? is that right? and could someone be kinda enough to explain this double and triple het for me... or point me to an article or web page something thanks
>>-----
>>-Stephen-
>>
>>0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
>>1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
>>1.0 norm corn (Jake)
>>1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
>>0.1 ball python (Bella)
>>1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

hey Ed

wait a second...

"Actually a snow is both homozygous for albino and anery. It's not hypo and anery (that's "sunglow.""

how can that be how can you be hypo and anery, but not homozygous for hypo and anery.... it sound like the same thing to me because you need to be homozygous for the trait to show?
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Ah, I think you might be confusing the hypo trait of rainbow boas with that of boa constrictors. With boa constrictors, hypo trait is not recessive. So "hypo" and "het for hypo" would (in most contexts) actually mean the same thing. In other words, hypos are hets. The trait shows with just one allele being the mutation for hypo. The term "super hypo" is used for homozygous for hypo boas.

Thanks,
Ed

>>hey Ed
>>
>>wait a second...
>>
>>"Actually a snow is both homozygous for albino and anery. It's not hypo and anery (that's "sunglow.""
>>
>>how can that be how can you be hypo and anery, but not homozygous for hypo and anery.... it sound like the same thing to me because you need to be homozygous for the trait to show?
>>-----
>>-Stephen-
>>
>>0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
>>1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
>>1.0 norm corn (Jake)
>>1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
>>0.1 ball python (Bella)
>>1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

OHHH! thats right!!! i knew that to just wasnt thinking lol thanks
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

A ghost is a hypo anery you can get them by anery x dh ghost which is a hypo het anery (dont know why its called dh when its only het for 1 thing). A snow can be produced a couple diff ways one way is albino het anery x albino het anery another is anery het albino x anery het albino or albino het anery x anery het albino and then there are normals which are dh snow and thats a normal het anery AND albino which you can breed to any of the said animals and produce snows if odds are on your side lol. A triple het anain like the dh ghost is not really het for three things but carry three genes they will always be some type of hypo either a ghost het albino or hypo het albino het anery or sunglow het anery (if i left one out someone please let me know) I hope this helps a little

so DH describes an animal homozygous for one trait (hypo) that also is het for another trait (anery)

a DH ghost then can be one of two animals, hypo het anery, or an anery het hypo is that right?

so another example would be an "albino het anery" would be considered a DH "something"? am i thinking of this right

then a TH would be simalliar like an "albino het anery het hypo"
no that wouldnt work would it..... or would it have to be an animal that is homozygous for hypo and anery and het albino?

sorry im just trying to figure out this DH TH thing a little better

A ghost is a hypo anery you can get them by anery x dh ghost which is a hypo het anery (dont know why its called dh when its only het for 1 thing). A snow can be produced a couple diff ways one way is albino het anery x albino het anery another is anery het albino x anery het albino or albino het anery x anery het albino and then there are normals which are dh snow and thats a normal het anery AND albino which you can breed to any of the said animals and produce snows if odds are on your side lol. A triple het anain like the dh ghost is not really het for three things but carry three genes they will always be some type of hypo either a ghost het albino or hypo het albino het anery or sunglow het anery (if i left one out someone please let me know) I hope this helps a little
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Hypo is a co-dom gene it either is or its not you can have hypos in a litter as long as 1 parent is a hypo. Albino and anery are recessive both parents have to carry gene to produce either an albino or anery.

Many people get confused when using Het to describe an animal with a dominant trait. Problem is they think of het describing an animal that has one recessive gene that they can;t see the affect of. Het simply means the genes within a specific gene pair are not the same. Does not matter if the mutated gene is weaker (recessive) or stronger (dominant or co-dominant) then the normal gene.

so.........

in BCI,

Hypo is dominant
Albino and Anery are recessive

Snow is visual Albino and Anery (2-Albino and 2-Anery genes)
Sunglow is Hypo and Albino (1 or 2 Hypo and 2-Albino genes)
Ghost is Hypo and Anery (1 or 2 Hypo and 2-Anery genes)
Moonglow os Hypo, Albino and Anery (1 or 2 Hypo, 2-Albino and 2-Anery genes)

DH Snow is het Albino and het Anery (1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)

DH Sunglow is het Hypo and het Albino (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)

DH Ghost is het Hypo and het Anery (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)

TH Moonglow is het Hypo, Het Albino and het Anery (visually a hypo with 1-Hypo, 1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)

And yes, "super" is used to describe a Hypo (or other dominant morph) with two of the mutant genes. So you can see something like DH Ghost pos super. That would mean is known to have at least two morph genes, 1-Hypo and 1-Anery and could have 2-Hypo but can't tell without breeding it. That specific case would come from Ghost x DH Ghost (also either could be known Super but not both or all babies would be known Super Hypos)

Hope that helps....
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Many people get confused when using Het to describe an animal with a dominant trait. Problem is they think of het describing an animal that has one recessive gene that they can;t see the affect of. Het simply means the genes within a specific gene pair are not the same. Does not matter if the mutated gene is weaker (recessive) or stronger (dominant or co-dominant) then the normal gene.
>>
>>
>>so.........
>>
>>in BCI,
>>
>>Hypo is dominant
>>Albino and Anery are recessive
>>
>>Snow is visual Albino and Anery (2-Albino and 2-Anery genes)
>>Sunglow is Hypo and Albino (1 or 2 Hypo and 2-Albino genes)
>>Ghost is Hypo and Anery (1 or 2 Hypo and 2-Anery genes)
>>Moonglow os Hypo, Albino and Anery (1 or 2 Hypo, 2-Albino and 2-Anery genes)
>>
>>DH Snow is het Albino and het Anery (1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)
>>
>>DH Sunglow is het Hypo and het Albino (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)
>>
>>DH Ghost is het Hypo and het Anery (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)
>>
>>TH Moonglow is het Hypo, Het Albino and het Anery (visually a hypo with 1-Hypo, 1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)
>>
>>And yes, "super" is used to describe a Hypo (or other dominant morph) with two of the mutant genes. So you can see something like DH Ghost pos super. That would mean is known to have at least two morph genes, 1-Hypo and 1-Anery and could have 2-Hypo but can't tell without breeding it. That specific case would come from Ghost x DH Ghost (also either could be known Super but not both or all babies would be known Super Hypos)
>>
>>Hope that helps....
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
>>36.51 BRB
>>29.42 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Is there such a thing as a Super Anery?

I know the answer, but I had an Anery give birth this year. The male had ZERO Anery blood. There were 9 in the litter. There were 5 het Aneries and 4 Aneries.

She unfortunately is not het Albino, so I can't test the Snow. I have two male Albinos ready to go. What are the chances of getting Snows when you absolutely should not?

This is mom and dad

No such thing as Super Anery it is a recessive gene
as Dave explained.
The obvious explanation in my opinion would be your male did have
the Anery gene you just didn't know.
This happens from time to time.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

The obvious explanation in my opinion would be your male did have
the Anery gene you just didn't know.
This happens from time to time.

That is THE most likely scenario. Sometimes a gene will get propogated in multiple gens of "possible" het to the point people don't even list the remote possibility. Also, some possible hets are sold as normals etc. End result is random genes are out there in our somewhat concentrated gene pool.

Other more remote possibility is...

I remember someone (I think it was Ronne) posting that het Aneries can sometimes look Anery at birth and then red comes in with subsequent sheds but my feeble mind remembers the post as being a rare occurance, not a significant percentage of a litter.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave of Rianbows-r-Us is the only one that got it correct. Still does not matter because the only god Boa in my opinion is a true untampered with true BCI or BCC. What can beat a nice pure Surinam or Peruvian LOL. Damn Shame that they are now being crossed with BCI morphs. In coming years we will not know what we are getting but i guess that is another topic.
Link

wow yes that helps!!!

ok yes i do understand the diff between homo and het, and i was told befor the in bci hypo is dominant, a fact that i seem to have forgotten untill i just read eds last post.

with that in mind lets clear up the dominant hypo gene a little. this is visable in the het form as well as homo(super), now with hypo in BCI there is no visable diff between the to correct? so the only way to know for sure is breeding trials. then if i bred a super hypo to a norm i would get a litter of visable hypos in the het form, and they should all be the same. where as a het hypo would give the 25%, 50%, 25% mix.... got it so far, sorry i think im just typing out loud at the moment

so a DH snow is always visually normal and DH sunglow, and ghost are always visually hypos? and one way to get those for sure is breeding a homo form of one to a homo form of another (a visual albino to a visual anery would give a littler of all normal looking DH snows)

Many people get confused when using Het to describe an animal with a dominant trait. Problem is they think of het describing an animal that has one recessive gene that they can;t see the affect of. Het simply means the genes within a specific gene pair are not the same. Does not matter if the mutated gene is weaker (recessive) or stronger (dominant or co-dominant) then the normal gene.

so.........

in BCI,

Hypo is dominant
Albino and Anery are recessive

Snow is visual Albino and Anery (2-Albino and 2-Anery genes)
Sunglow is Hypo and Albino (1 or 2 Hypo and 2-Albino genes)
Ghost is Hypo and Anery (1 or 2 Hypo and 2-Anery genes)
Moonglow os Hypo, Albino and Anery (1 or 2 Hypo, 2-Albino and 2-Anery genes)

DH Snow is het Albino and het Anery (1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)

DH Sunglow is het Hypo and het Albino (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)

DH Ghost is het Hypo and het Anery (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)

TH Moonglow is het Hypo, Het Albino and het Anery (visually a hypo with 1-Hypo, 1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)

And yes, "super" is used to describe a Hypo (or other dominant morph) with two of the mutant genes. So you can see something like DH Ghost pos super. That would mean is known to have at least two morph genes, 1-Hypo and 1-Anery and could have 2-Hypo but can't tell without breeding it. That specific case would come from Ghost x DH Ghost (also either could be known Super but not both or all babies would be known Super Hypos)

Hope that helps....
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Yeah, kinda sucks that Hypo is expressed differently in BCI and BRB, adds to the confusion. All statements here are towards BCI and Hypo being dominant....

Mostly no difference betwee Het and Homo Hypo. BUT, some Homo are visually distinguishable from Het form. Not a clean difference though. Not all can be visually determined so it's actually between Dominant and co-dominant but since not all can be distinguished, it falls back on Dominant.

Super hypo x normal = all babies Visual Hypo
Het Hypo x het Hypo = 25/50/25/ Super/het/normal but soince you can't always tell the Het and Super apart it's 75/25 Hypo (pos super) / normal

Several ways to get DH Snows but yeah, one parent has to be visual Albino and one has to be visual Anery (the visuals could be the same parent)

DH Sunglow or DH Gost are different, Same thing where between the parents both traits must be visually shown but Hypo shows as a het so for example, Hypo(het) x Albino = 50/50 - DH Sunglow / het Albino.

And of course in most pairings there are multiple possible outcomes
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

yeah thats all super helpfull thanks alot

so how are you with the punnett squares lol i was trying to figure it out and the simple 4 square ones with a het anery x het anery are easy i got those down

i tried to figure out how to do it multiple trats but didnt know what to lable them as... so how do you set up a square for say a anery het albino x DH snow

or a het anery x hypo het anery or something like that

like i said i get the 4 square Aa Aa cross but how do you lable multiple traits
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

>anery het albino x DH snow

an = anerythristic
An = normal

a = albino
A = normal

// = a pair of chromosomes
A//a = a pair of chromosomes with A in one chromosome and a in the same location in the other chromosome.

anery het albino = an//an A//a
DH snow = An//an A//a

anery het albino is on the top of the Punnett square with two types of sex cells:
an A and an a

DH snow is in the square's left column with 4 types of sex cells:
An A
An a
an A
an a

Have fun.

Paul Hollander

Often I see where the same folks that can figure out a simple punnet square on one or two morphs are struggling to figure out the outcomes multiple morph genetics involved. It's actually fairly simple and straightforward.

There are two basic outcomes of interest.....

1) What visual phenotypes should/could pop out

2) What are the probabilities of any of those specific outcomes

Both are easily answered with just a little math....

For example Jungle Sunglow het Moonglow x Jungle het Snow (complicated on purpose)

Expand that out to show all the genetics involved......

Jungle, Hypo, Albino, het Anery x Jungle, het Albino, het anery

Now separate them into the individual traits, remember to show both animals for each trait......

Jungle x Jungle
Hypo x Normal
Albino x Het Albino
Het Anery x Het Anery

Then work out the visual phenotypes and odds for each trait.....

Jungle x Jungle = ¼ Super Jungle, ½ Jungle, ¼ Normal
Hypo x Normal = ½ Hypo, ½ Normal
Albino x Het Albino = ½ Albino, ½ Normal
Het Anery x Het Anery = ¼ Anery, ¾ Pos het Anery

The total number of visual phenotypes equals the product of the individual trait phenotypes (multiply them all together)....

#Jungle x #Hypo x #Albino x #Anery = 3 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 24

Which says if the litter were large enough and the odds gods were totally fair, there would be 24 different looks in all the babies.

To figure out the odds on any one of those outcomes (yeah, if you want all 24 you have to repeat the process 23 more times) Pick one phenotype from each of the visual traits. Then multiply the odds for each of those phenotypes.....

Examples....

Super Jungle, Hypo, Albino, Anery (yeah, might not able to visually ID all the traits with all that's going on, for the sake of this discussion, all are visible one way or another))
¼ x ½ x ½ x ¼

Or 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 over 4 x 2 x 2 x 4 = 1/64 or one in 64 babies from that pairing would be a Super Jungle Moonglow

One more, what are the odds on normal looking wild type baby (remember, you have to select one from each group) so......

Normal(Jungle) x Normal(Hypo) x Normal(Albino) x Normal(Anery)
¼ x ½ x ½ x ¾ = 3/64

Hope this helps, I know many get confused at first but once you grasp the concept, you'll always know how to figure out even the most complicated outcomes.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

ok
this guy made some great points i'm going to copy and paste it and just correct the couple of mistypes that he did, It's a lot to type and it's easy to miss something. I will quote a couple of the spots and I'll correct the mistakes
heres what he had on a couple

DH Sunglow is het Hypo and het Albino (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)CORRECTION*** does not need anery to be double het sunglow***

DH Ghost is het Hypo and het Anery (visually a Hypo with 1-Hypo and 1-Anery genes)

TH Moonglow is het Hypo, Het Albino and het Anery (visually a hypo with 1-Hypo, 1-Albino and 1-Anery genes)***on codominants it's just easier saying it's either hypo or not. It can't be het for hypo. It just is. Easier to remember. You can have two hypos and all or none of your babies could be or not be hypo... not likely, but it is possible.***don't throw in the het hypo just say visually a hypo.

I will say this part. On the supers. I've heard quite a bit of discussion and I would like some clarification on them.
You can breed hypo to hypo and get some hypo babies. They may or may not be supers. A super if you had one would only be realized when you breed it. In breeding a super to test it you would breed the possible super hypo to a normal boa and get all hypo babies and no normals...This would make the breeder a super , but still would not make the babies supers... The only way to test for super is to breed each one... is that correct.
Also as in hypo being co dom. Are not Motley, Arabesque and jungle all co-dom. And what is leopard. Please email me on these

This guy was right on just thought it may help make things a bit easier. I know when I was trying to get into this there were a hundred guys telling me all kinds of disinformation. And by all means not being disrespectful to the previous poster. I love this forums and absolutely am still new to this and by no means would I claim to know more then the next guy... just the things I do know I'm willing to help out with.