Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I see snakes "with Papers" all of the time.
What all do these papers show? How does one come to get papers for a breeding pair of albinos or het pairs and their babies?
I would just like to know for future reference so If I end up seeing any het babies I can officially get them papered.
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My collection...

Albino and albino het ball pair
Trio yellow belly balls
Pair Het pieds
2 Mojave Female balls
1 Unidentified ball morph
1 Suriname red tail

The papers are offered by the people selling the snakes. Some people offer them, some people don't. Basically, they are a guarantee that the genetics of the animal are what they're being sold as. They're not something you can get for a snake that you already have.

Ya, these "papers" can be as simple as a printed piece of paper with the list on genes on them. Don't pay any extra to get a het from someone with papers. I'd by them from a good breeder that I trusted.
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Coolluigi

"You can never have too many hets" - Jim S

0.1 Pastel Pos Het Hypo
1.1 Pastel
1.0 Mojave Pos Het Hypo
1.0 Yellowbelly
1.0 100 % Het Pied
0.8 50% Het Pied
1.7 Normal
0.2 100% Het Hypo (Orange Ghost)
0.2 Spider
1.2 100% Het VPI Axanthic
and soon to be more. *fingers crossed*

I agree. A breeder shouldn't charge extra to guarantee the genetics of the snake they are selling. The cost to give your customer photo paperwork guaranteeing genetics is next to nothing and shouldn't factor into the price of the animal.

I offer paper work if a customer requests it. But keep in mind that paper work is only as good as the source that makes it. People still get ripped off even with paper work. You will just have to breed it and prove it out. Even if you have paper work and it proves to be bogus there isn't much you can do about it. Buy from someone you trust is the best thing to do. Do your home work when buying hets. In some cases that deal that sounds to good to be true just might be with or with out papers.

Like the others said, papers are only as good as the integrity of the person you purchase the snakes from. I've received some pretty crappy "paperwork" in the past and I've also had some fairly decent paperwork arrive.

The worst I've ever received was from a "breeder" that sent me the snake along with a 3"x5" note card that simply said "Posuble 50 percint het"

That's it. It was written with a bold permanent marker in what appeared to be a 3rd grade child's handwriting. The spelling above is EXACTLY how the seller wrote it. It was so ridiculous that I actually kept it as a joke. I didn't pay much for the snake and it was a female so I didn't mind too much, but I have made it a point never to purchase or recommend the seller again.

I know a lot of people will bash paperwork but it can be beneficial in many ways. The paperwork I've always made up for my customers includes a color picture of both the Sire and the Dam (along with their ID numbers) as well as a color picture of the snake that is being offered. The pattern on all of the snakes is always clearly visible for future identification.

I always list the genetics of the Sire, Dam and the offered snake as well as a guarantee stating what the buyer can possibly expect to produce when breeding the snake to a normal as well as another snake with it's same genotype.

I have a detailed guarantee that lists the terms of a refund or exchange if the animal fails to prove out in the future as well as my contact information. I also include the original purchaser's name and contact information along with the date of the sale. This way if the original buyer wants to resell the animal they will be able to provide some sort of "proof" of the animal's genetics. I only extend the guarantee to the person named as the original buyer, but if they decide to sell or trade the snake they can use my paperwork as a sort of template to create their own guarantee to future buyers. Everything is spelled out in a straight forward, easy to understand manner.

After everything is all set up and the sale is finalized I always make sure to laminate the paperwork (which also carries a watermark - to make duplication more difficult). This way it is less likely the buyer will lose the paperwork and it ensures that nothing is tampered with. If they need to return the animal for a refund, the paperwork must come back with the animal. At that time I can compare it against the original copy I keep in my records as well as against the returned animal's patterning. If anything doesn't line up or appears tampered with - the deal is off and the guarantee is void.

Paperwork doesn't just protect the buyer, at times it can be used to protect the breeder as well as any future buyers.

While I can't completely advocate charging extra for paperwork, I can understand the practice to an extent. If the breeder or seller offering the paperwork is someone I trust or who has references I trust then it makes it a little easier to pay an extra money - especially if no one else is offering any sort of guarantee with their animals of similar genotype.

By the way, the reason I include all of my contact information along with the original buyer's contact information is so that future potential buyers can contact me (if needed) and inquire as to whether I actually produced and sold the animal being sold and so that I can verify that I actually sold it to whomever is currently offering it for sale.

If everyone includes similar paperwork with their animals and also passes on any paperwork they received when they bought the animal, it becomes easier to see a history of the snake - which can also be good information to know before committing to a purchase.

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Stay United!

"...I say 'apparently' because despite all our progress she is not at all a tame or handle-able snake and gettting her from that cage would re-start a war.. and we've had a good armistice for several months now."-Gus Rentfro - I love this quote!

I have made similar paperwork for our snakes and animals that we own. I have a binder that has at least 1 good pic of the animal, where it came from, etc-- I also have a back up copy on a flash drive in our fire safe. (also includes AKC papers and rabies tags and such for dogs and other animals) -- If there is ever a fire- I'll be grabbing snakes and animals and throwing them all in a pillow case or tub and getting them out--- then I'll find my box and figure out who is who after wards.

I personally feel more comfortable buying snakes that have paperwork. We rarely buy but if I were to get hets (as I love love love clowns- I'd buy hets and make my own) I would be much happier getting them with paperwork- when they were born, parents, when/what they have eaten, etc--
In the rescue side of my house we get sooooo many animals we know nothing about that it is sometimes hard to make them totally comfortable for a few weeks-- some iguanas don't eat greens or certain foods- so they are stressed and hungry. Its nice to know what they eat as for balls (mice, rats, asfs???)

anywho-- I like paperwork and the description of it being laminated and the guarantee and all that sounds fantastic!

~Beth
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Until there are none, Rescue One! Get ready to welcome the new and improved Oklahoma Animal Rescue Group -- Just a few weeks away from getting our 501c3 status!!!!!

I'm going to save this post as an example of what I would like to do when I start selling the babies from any breeding I do. I think I will send paperwork along even if it isn't requested, just to cover all my bases.
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3.4 ball pythons
1.1 kingsnakes
0.1 crazy cat
?!.?! ASFs
1.0 husband

Bash paperwork. I really like the idea of how you did that Brandon. My point was some breeders out their could send me a bible saying that a snake was het for something, and I STILL wouldn't buy from them, much less pay extra. Giving paperwork is a good pratice, and I know I plan on doing it, but my point is buy from someone you, or someone you know,knows and trusts. That is the best way to keep from getting burned, esp some of those breeders that are almost giving het clowns away! There has to be a catch somewhere....

By the way Brandon, Thursday still on??
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Coolluigi

"You can never have too many hets" - Jim S

0.1 Pastel Pos Het Hypo
1.1 Pastel
1.0 Mojave Pos Het Hypo
1.0 Yellowbelly
1.0 100 % Het Pied
0.8 50% Het Pied
1.7 Normal
0.2 100% Het Hypo (Orange Ghost)
0.2 Spider
1.2 100% Het VPI Axanthic
and soon to be more. *fingers crossed*

I know you weren't "bashing" paperwork, Steve. I was just trying to present the other side of the debate, that's all.

We have a green light for the 13th for sure, I'll bring you some of my templates for paperwork so you can get a better idea of what I mean. I have a few other things as well, like invoice templates (if I haven't "lost" them).

I've been a little busier than I expected so I haven't been able to get you and Doug your pics yet and tonight is feeding night so it might be another day or two... don't worry - you'll both get them in plenty of time.

Otherwise, just let me know the time and place on Thursday that works best for you and I'll let you know if there are any complications!

Talk to you soon.