Reptile & Amphibian Forums

TALLAHASSEE, Fl - Governor Charlie Crist met with Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation officials Wednesday on the subject of snakes.
The agency is considering asking the state to ban the sale of Burmese pythons like the one that killed a Sumter County girl last month. "First and foremost the most important thing is to protect the people. So when there's a safety factor involved in it that's a priority," said Gov. Crist.

While a ban is considered, officials want to see stricter regulations for snake owners, including a requirement to put micro-chips in the reptiles and strict fines for those caught turning them loose. Mike Sole was at the meeting Wednesday. He is the Secretary of the Department of Environmental Protection and says, "the longer you wait, the more expensive, trying to control the problem will be."

The Governor praised the commission's efforts in hunting pythons. Officials estimate tens of thousands of the non-native snakes
are loose in the Everglades. Hunters have captured and killed just six so far.

Bobby Rex owns Scales in Brandon. He says snake owners need to be smart. "To keep an exotic (snake), you have to know a little bit more than just throwing kibble in a bowl."

He doesn't sell Burmese pythons because of all the permit issues involved, but he does sell other species of pythons and large boa constrictors. He doesn't want to see responsible pet owners punished. "If you don't keep your dog locked in your yard, they take it away. If you don't keep locked in it's cage, they take it away. Don't punish me because someone else does it incorrectly," said Rex.

Rex says just the talk of banning any kind of snake is bad for business, and it ever happens for real, he says it could eventually force him to close up shop.
"I think that if it's the larger species, the regulation that is in place is adequate. I think they just need to enforce the current laws, they don't need more."

Along with looking into an all out ban on Burmese pythons, wildlife officials say they may also ask the state to stop allowing internet sales of those snakes. Meanwhile they also agreed to extend the Everglades hunt past the original end date.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story/Officials-consider-Burmese-python-ban/0mcy1gWfI0GYEMud1Ofexw.cspx

Eric,

Thanks for posting this article…It at least shows someone from the “community” was at least represented in it…This is nice to see for once.

>>"First and foremost the most important thing is to protect the people. So when there's a safety factor involved in it that's a priority," said Gov. Crist.

Really Governor? Safety first? What a load tripe! Hey, accidents/tragedies happen on a daily basis Governor…Using your political-speak logic (which most certainly passed the environmental/conservation PR screening before release), the State of Florida should ban dogs, horses, and cattle – which also injure or kill Floridians on an annual basis...Safety First Governor.

As a bonus, they are ALL invasive, non-native species – brought by the Europeans when THEY invaded North America…And then there’s the native fauna to worry about – if you it TRULY is a matter of safety! Oh yeah, don’t forget to “ban” lightening as more people are in killed in Florida by lightening strikes than any other state in the union…Perhaps Governor, you can regulate God.

>> Along with looking into an all out ban on Burmese pythons, wildlife officials say they may also ask the state to stop allowing internet sales of those snakes.

This is unsettling to see as well as this is just the use of a tragedy to further the agenda (via propaganda) of the government…The control of information. Throughout human history (pick a century), totalitarian governments MUST control the flow of information and in the old days, this was a simple matter of making the newspapers disappear (later in history, the “checklist” included radio and TV).

Whether the “revolution” is by force – coup (Soviet Union, Cuba, etc) or through subversion from within (post WWI Germany, Great Britain and what’s happening in the US) – the only “message” that can be heard by the people must originate from the government (or its authorized minions).

When a centralized government wants to “control” a thing (or activity), it regulates it and once regulated, it can then be banned…If they are successful in “regulating” the internet (using this “tragedy” as the propaganda banner), then this will be used as the legal precedent for future internet regulation…

Just as the ECO-WACKO’s have done with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the Lacey Act, the Endangered Species Act (ESA), etc…These acts are ALL cited as legal precedents when it goes before Congress – to solve a new problem or address something that wasn’t covered with the original Public Law – or when it eventually goes before the Supreme Court when challenged.

At the time of the Constitution, “electronic” news (only printed) didn’t exist but some how, one “electronic” media is deemed Constitutional (TV news) and another isn’t (talk radio)? I guess in the "enlightened' world, you can pick and choose the unpopular "speech" the people can hear...

Later,
Jim.
-----
CSRAJim

Here Here, Jim. All good points.

I'd like to reintegrate this one in particular -- "First and foremost the most important thing is to protect the people. So when there's a safety factor involved in it that's a priority," said Gov. Crist."

I agree -- What about dogs, domestic animals, guns, automobiles, swimming pools? The list goes on and on.

Good political speak, to act like you are doing something about relevant issues, when you're really not.

Complete lack of political courage to take on a group with almost no ability to defend itself.

I call that Demagoguery!

jsc

-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

John,

>>Good political speak, to act like you are doing something about relevant issues, when you're really not.

In this case, it’s the speak that “sells” (as determined by PR and focus groups) and it is intended to create a “false” issue to “disguise” the real issue of the intent of this stuff…Remember, this is about invasive species as it relates to biodiversity conservation AND the World Heritage Site status of the Everglades National Park. The invasive species issue is a subset of biodiversity and the reason why IT will not go away…It has been a part of the agenda since 1968 when the MAB Program was first conceptualized…

>>Complete lack of political courage to take on a group with almost no ability to defend itself.

You don’t need courage when no matter what you say no one in the media will do even the slightest amount of investigation…Or ask you any tough questions. These days, demagoguery is the speech de jour…Whether it’s true or not…

Have a good weekend,
Jim.

-----
CSRAJim

that the snake killed the kid. So far, from what I've read, my money's on the boyfriend.

The governor is going after this industry because we are soft targets. We can no longer afford to be soft targets. I have nothing to lose fighting for my rights and everything to lose by not fighting for them. I do not currently have any members of the genus Python but plan on them in the future and I refuse to have my future stolen by an agenda like this. Pisses me off. We must unify and adopt strategies for success when it comes to fighting for ourselves. Look at how the commercial fishing industry ( wholesale removal of bio mass from the ocean) spins it. They have a TV show on Discovery Channel. Advertising. Simple.

Jeff,

I agree 100%, it's time we went on the offensive and got our message in front of the common man, dispell some of the myths (lies) that the "otherside" is putting out. But how do we go about that? I was talking to Dave Barker the other day about the really nice essay he and Tracy wrote. It'd be great to get that kind of message out, but they sent it to all the appropriate politicians, every reporter they could find that had written an article on the topic, etc. and he said he has received almost no response from any of them. How do we get our story out? We need to win the hearts and minds of the people that are not directly involved in the industry/hobby, or least give them something else to think about other than the crap they're getting spoon fed at up to this point. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Mark
-----
uncommonboa.com

I think the very best thing we can do for now is to notify them (the media) in a polite manner, as a group, that we don't think they (the media) are reporting the issues in a fair and impartial manner and that we as a group will henceforth actively boycott their individual medias, as well as the advertisers that sponsor them. Then I would write the same letters to those sponsors informing them of the same.
We're mad and we're just not going to take it anymore! Now that's what I call a grassroots effort.
jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I agree with everything being posted here. I also believe that communication, education and the truth about this hobby/industry, is what is needed to save it from oblivion. We should just tell it like it is ( as politely as possible ). We should continue to quantify (what is the real threat of people enjoying non-charismatic, non-fluffy, pets that put them in touch with the natural world) in the overall scheme of things. I can look around my county in coastal California everyday and see very real and imminent threats to the natural world. Its like, pick your poison. We should also qualify this hobby/industry/passion. This is deeply personal to each and everyone of us and is not as easy to express for people like me. I can tell you, I grew up in a fractured family and lost my dad to another family at a young age. Professional herpetologists ( Bob Hansen, Ron Tremper and Sean Mckeown ) , took time out to help me along, channel my passions and build upon their accomplishments. They showed me the way. They were and are still my heroes along with all of the other pillars of this hobby/industry. Mentors. I do not know Bob and Tracy Barker personally but I feel they are one of the most positive and best voices for continued legalization of big snakes and they can speak for me any day.
I also believe in the power of peer pressure and shame. If vendors are not ethical and are selling large constricting snakes to just anyone, then I believe proper pressure should be applied by others in the hobby/industry. I was given the opportunity to keep large Burmese at the age of 13 because I had a mentor and liberal mother, who trusted me and knew I was capable. I have never been bitten by large Burmese because I understand their behaviors. I do not mean to go off but I am still formulating ideas for some type of action plan which I will post here. I am proud that so many of us have rallied to save ourselves some rights and I am feeling more hopeful about it then I did a year ago.

Biophile,

Agreed…We are the “low fruit on the tree” so to speak…And right now, we are one of the first of the “private industries” they are working on to control. By private industry, I mean small business (primarily)…There are a few really large pet industries but the overwhelming part of captive husbandry (regardless of herping interesting or philosophy), is done by individual herpers (or other plant or animal propagation enthusiasts - plants fall under the “invasive species” as well). With that in mind, this is actually what (small business) they are seeking to control (remember, the cause is anthropologic) using the animal (your choice) or plant as the “propaganda” banner (there must be a villain to vilify)…just my 10-cents worth here…

Regarding the commercial fishing industry…Over the years, “they” have done their very best (and continue to so) to regulate the “small fisherman” out of existence and in my opinion, this was their intent. With each new regulation that is based, it carries with it an “unfunded mandate” (expense) that the small operator, over time, can not afford to do…And therefore, they go away. However, large commercial fishing industries can afford them (because their profits are based on volume). As a benefit to the “agenda”, 20 large industries are easier to control by regulation than 20,000 individual fishermen. Also, large commercialized operations can absorb the cost over time and then pass this “expense” off to the consumer (as in a sense, they are not really paying it-We the consumers are). Whereas the small, individual fisherman, is fishing to put a roof over their heads, etc (not to achieve a profit margin or appease stock holders). The bottom line is that within the regulatory framework, it’s easier for “them” to deal with 20 industries than 20,000 individuals (that write those troublesome letters to politicians and get in their face at “outreach” meetings, etc-which have been going on for some ten years or so-this was the first attempt at regulatory control)…I think you get the idea…It’s about control using the “propaganda” banner of save the dolphins and turtles…

The small individual fisherman in the Gulf, bought (or constructed) “approved” reefs that they took out and sank in the Gulf to create fishing reefs (that didn’t exist before) that provides habitat for bottom fish…Where they take fishermen out on “in-shore” or “deep-sea” fishing trips…”They” have begun to institute a catch limit of ONE red snapper per person per day (it used to be four)! This “regulation” is ending a way of life for these fishermen (and women)…Keep in mind two things…First, the overwhelming majority of the bottom of the Gulf is an underwater desert…And because of the “reefs” that these fishermen (and the offshore gas rigs) put out there, created habitat for fish WHERE THEY DIDN’T EXIST BEFORE! Second, the same limits were exempted from the regulations for the large commercial fishing “special interests”. Meaning, the small fisherman is not going to over-fish their “numbers” (reefs) because their business depends on fishermen going out and catching fish! In other words, they “manage” their own reefs because their very livelihood depends on it…

Later,
Jim.

-----
CSRAJim

Yes. Unfortunately it is all about economies of scale and the little guy gets pushed out in the name of efficiency.

I said something along this line when the Turtle industry in Texas was last regulated. The new rules as written allow commerce and export in the primary food species -- Common Snappers, Smooth Softshells, Spiny Softshells and Red Eared Sliders. They must be taken from private land.

Well who owns the resources to create such a viable economic model. Certainly not the subsistence collector or the hobbyist. No, its the guys that wrote the rules. The people with all the land [and money]. The only ones with enough resources and investor capital to create a profitable commercial economic model.

All those inept turtle lovers with no skills and no chops, the ones that just love to be near power, enabled it all to happen. I'd say they sold us out, but honestly, I wouldn't give them that much credit. They're just a bunch of chump wanna be's. They even kicked me off one of their hair-brained forums for telling them that, too. Couldn't handle the truth.

jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer