Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I’ve taken the liberty of reprinting some of my post below about the Gap. This subject may be a little off-topic, but I figured I had a shot at keeping this on the GBK forum if Fraser can get away with posting pics of celaenops…lol

“I would have thought that the removal of the opportunity to hunt R&A on public roads and right of ways would have been followed by a gesture to open up the wildlife management areas, but the only public lands left open for the hunting of “animals” in West Texas remain closed to the hunting of reptiles and amphibians. That’s a little peculiar isn’t it? TPWD can provide for equitable hunting opportunities for everyone and access to R&A populations beyond the ROW on publicly managed lands like wildlife management areas, but they don’t.”

Why not? Was this question posed to TPWD during the committee hearings?

Robert

It appears the Gap is not open to the hunting of other animals as well, namely deer, javelina and desert bighorn. In fact, the legal game legend box for 2008-2009, lists only dove, quail, rabbits, hares and fishing during the WMA’s open seasons. Have they become more restrictive since 2007?

During committee hearing Sinclair told King that the state "could" make land available. As of now, it's not available.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

Alright, from now on it’s see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil and post no evil. LOL.

Robert

Joe, While I agree w/ taking the high road for the most part w/ this issue, I don't see anything wrong w/ asking legitimate questions in an appropriate fashion such as Robert has done. I suppose ligitimate questions may be responded to in an inappropriate manner by others, but that's kind of like shooting the messenger.

DB

Robert has earned his lashing in other ways
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

You mentioned that Sinclair told King that the state "could" make land available, and that at present it's not available. Do you know if the state (Sinclair, whoever) has BEGUN the procedural steps to make that land available at this time?

Robert

my guess is "don't hold your breath". I believe it's worth pursuing. The major obstacle seems to be Desert Bighorn Sheep.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

in the xmas mountains looking for someone to lease. They specifically want hunters. I never checked into it because it would be a tremendously huge deal and frankly I thought it was over our heads... but someone might look into it.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

I agree, so are you or the organization pursuing it? Obviously, you wouldn't know about the sheep thing if there wasn't already some exchange of information. And, thanks for sharing why my fanny was torched-very funny, haha. What is the issue with the sheep?

Robert

I know much of Black Gap is closed to camping during the time they are raising young, this happens to overlap the herp season. I imagine it would be the same at Elephant Mountain.
Portions of the WMA remain open during that time, and I see no reason they shouldn't be available to us, other than the problems it may pose to BP, but that should not be TPW's concern.

John

I don’t know about bighorn management concerns in Texas, but in AZ these sheep are present in virtually all the western and southwestern mountains ranges that support populations of locality rosy boas and these mountain ranges (outside of two National Wildlife Refuges) are NEVER “closed” . I used to be known as a lucky boa collector before my Texas finds started squeezing out my native boa collection, and I came into contact with a herd of bighorn only once. It was at night, I was walking a wash through a canyon in the Plomosa Mts when some rocks started to fall. I put my light on the sound source and up high was a herd of about 6-7 sheep, approximately 300ft away. But, here’s the thing. IMO, they were up so high and in such rugged terrain that it left no chance of the type of meaningful interaction that might be a concern.

Robert

I believe the problem is the small size and recent nature of the desert bighorn population-they no doubt want to give them time to expand undisturbed. Of course this does not explain why we are excluded from other WMAs....
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Here's some background info about the sheep in their Trans-Pecos habitat from TPWD.

Robert
Link

So buzzing the herds with copters and auctioning off hunts is okay but us looking for herps down low is out? Like we could get close on a frequent basis, or would want to other than the incidental photo op.
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Todd Hughes

I believe that if the problem lies with the Desert Bighorns, it is because the herp season coincides with the time that the sheep are trying to raise new lambs. The hunts take place later in the year, and I would guess that the annual count takes place before or after the birthing season.

John

Exacty, Texas is a big state with tons of other opportunities out there, Kickapoo Caverns anyone???
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Todd Hughes