Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I've always wondered what others thought of this. What falls into the "hobbyist", "small time breeder", and "big breeder" categories?

I think first and foremost, it's necessary to agree on the fact that those categories are different for boas vs other snakes. 5 average ball python litters does NOT equal 5 average boa litters or 5 burmese python litters in terms of the number of animals.

Second, for the sake of argument, I'd like to discuss "litters" as the number of females attempted for a season. OBVIOUSLY, no one is 100% in that number but I think counting litters could be misleading if someone is TERRIBLE at breeding boas! lol

Lastly, let me put some numbers to this. What would you categorize the following number of litters as:
1-3:
3-5:
5-8:
8-12:
12-16:
17-25:
25-35:
35-50:
50-75:
75 :

Options are listed above, but again, hobbyist level, small time breeder, big breeder.
I guess essentially I'd like to know where you think the hobbyist becomes a small time breeder and where the small time breeder becomes a "big breeder".

I suppose another way to look at this would be total number of baby boas born. The only reason I didn't want to do that is because a HUGE litter could drastically change things. You could have one litter of 75 babies vs someone else who had someone else who had 9 litters of 8 babies each and you would have outproduced them.

Feel free to do this the other way and say that a hobbyist stops being a hobbyist when they produce "x" number of boas or litters and a small time breeder stops being such when they produce "y" number of boas or litters.

Let me know your thoughts!

jb
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Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

1-3: Hobbyist
3-5: Hobbyist
5-8: Small time breeder
8-12: Small time breeder
12-16: Small time breeder/big breeder (depending on what's produced)
17-25: Big breeder
25-35: Big breeder
35-50: Big breeder who has the ability to decimate a market
50-75: Big breeder who better have the ability to ship overseas!
75 : Don't get me started... lol

Just for the sake of argument, lets say each boa produced is worth, on the average, $500 and each litter has 12 babies. Income potential is:
1-3: $6000-18000
3-5: $18000-30000
5-8: $30000-48000
8-12: $48000-72000
12-16: $72000-96000
17-25: $102000-150000
25-35: $150000-210000
35-50: $210000-300000
50-75: $300000-450000
75 : $450000

Those figures are why I feel like anyone producing more than 12 litters per year is a "big breeder". It's your job. You're a boa breeder! And although I reserved the comment for the 35-50 group, even a hobbyist could decimate a market via overproduction or underpricing.

Obviously, this is just an excercise and those numbers don't apply across the board. There are litters produced each year and NO animal from the litter goes for less than $5000, not $500. There are also litters of normals produced every year that are wholesaled out at $40 ( /-) each. Also, again, each "attempted female" was considered a litter and each litter was 12 babies. So... lots of variables there...

jb
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Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I am definitely a hobbyest you start getting over 100 babbies to feed every week plus adults and carry overs from the year befor and that just gets crazy. you need three freezers just to keep snake food in.1-2 litters a year is fine with me.
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Vince Pramuk []__[]

1-3: Hobbyist
3-5: Hobbyist moving towards small time breeder (depending on what's produced)
5-8: Small time breeder
8-12: Small time breeder moving towards big breeder(depending on what's produced)
12-16: big breeder (depending on what's produced)
17-25: Big breeder
25-35: Big breeder
35-50: Big breeder who has the ability to decimate a market
50-75: Big breeder who better have the ability to ship overseas!
75 : BOA MILL (Snake version of Puppy Mill) LOL.

Just for the sake of argument, lets say the amount of money the snakes sell for doesn't matter. Income from the snakes is nice, but the amount of snakes put onto the market is what I'm looking at. Lets say each litter is 20 boas. My numbers represent boas not monies.
1-3: 20-60
3-5: 60-100
5-8: 100-160
8-12:160-240
12-16: 240-320
17-25: 340-500
25-35: 500-700
35-50: 700-1000
50-75: 1000-1500
75 : 1500+++ Equals BOA MILL!!

Anyway, I've yet to meet a "hobbyist" that makes 500 dollars off of each snake. More often, they get 200 +/- for each. Some get less then 50 dollars each. It's not the amount of money you make, IMO, it's how many animals you put in the market place.

If you figure there's only 100 hobbyist in each state(except for Hawaii).... Those numbers really add up.

If you figure there's 100 Small Breeders in each state(except for Hawaii), the number add up even faster.

If you figure there's 500 Big breeders in the entire US that produce 35 to 50 litters a year......This would include all those that produce50-75 or more litters a year as well.... THAT'S A WHOLE LOT OF BOAS!!!!

I'm sure there's more boas being produced that the market really needs.

I'm only planning on producing 1 or 2 litters a year. If they all don't sell before the next breeding season rolls around..... I'll skip breeding that year. It's the responsible thing to do.

I think there are a-lot of factors that determine a small breeder from a hobbyist!

Money invested in collection.

Number of litters produced on an annual basis.

Money made off of collection! What level of income determines your level of status?

Reputation

There are probably more, I personally feel the biz is moving away from big breeders to medium/small sized collections, putting out much more selectively bred specimens than ever.

I had twelve pairings this season hit on half of them. Two blood python clutches as well! I'll produce over a 100 animals this year and right now with babies my collection sits at over 175 animals. Almost all the animals I have that were born in 03 and older were produced by me. I owe almost all my possession I own today to breeding boas! As far as feeding my collection, I breed all my own rodents "Quality Control"!!!! I start killing and vacuum sealing hoppers in Dec.

Interesting topic!!!!

Al Brown/Brown's Boas

I look at it a bit differently then the others.

1-8: Hobbyist
9-20: small time breeder
21-35: big time breeder
36 and up: a bit extreme and excessive imo.
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Randall L Turner Jr.