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I have had these two yearling females for about 1.5 months and neither of them has begun to feed regularly. They are at the correct temps and everything with plenty of ventilation. My other subocs are doing fine just these two will not eat. They seem completely fine in all other aspects. Is there anything to try besides smaller food items?

James

Try Thunderdoming (a term invented by another kingsnaker)

Put the snake in a small container with a small food item (prekilled of course). Place the container in a warm, dark area like a closet. Leave him in there overnight.

If that doesn't work, try putting him in a paper bag with the food item. Fold the top over twice and tape it to prevent him from getting out, then place the bag in the snake's cage. Put that in the closet overnight.

The confined space and the dark give the snake a sense of security. If your snake is nervous, he won't eat. If he feels safe, he has a better chance of eating.

Also, you can split the head of the mice and squeeze some brain juice out. This sometimes excites the snake and prompts a feeding response.

Finally, try offering the snake a live food item. I purchase pinkies or fuzzies since they can't harm the snake if left unattended. you can also put a few F/T mice in there beside the live mouse. After the snake eats the live mouse, he'll likely eat the dead ones as well.

If you have to use adult mice, check on your snake frequently. The mouse can cause serious damage to your snake. NEVER leave the mouse in there unattended. If you have to go to the store, take the mouse out. If you have to go to sleep, take it out. The only exception is if you use pinkie mice/rats since they are harmless.
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Usually feed a live little hopper or big fuzzy and it will get all my other snakes to eat. Maybe it is a security issue not enough hides or something? How long before I get concerned and should I force feed after that?

I have an adult female silver suboc that has never been a strong feeder. She is about 7 years old now, I believe and just a few months ago started eating aggresively and regularly. She is now eating a couple thawed rat pups twice a week. In the past, she would maybe eat once a month, if that. And the weird thing is that nothing has changed for her.

I also have a male blonde suboc that was a great feeder when he hatched then stop eating. I put a new hide in and changed from paper towel substrate to aspen to give him more hiding options and he started up again.

So I would definitely try more hides and you might even try a different type of prey, like rats over mice. I have one big older female that eats medium sized rats like crazy but is not interested in mice.

Good.

A couple thoughts and opinions from one who WAS the world’s worst Suboc keeper, and is now successful.
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First, all the techniques listed by these good folks, so far, are right on the money.
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I’ve always been successful with “tease feeding” on All neonatal NA Rat Snakes, EXCEPT Subocs!!!!
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As long as the animals have good body tone, do not force feed. (If it comes to that, I highly recommend a “pinky pump”.)
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DR has beat us up several times here, and in his fine book, that these animals are crevice creatures and many individuals must feel secure. An almost magic hide for hatchling and yearling Subocs is a trick that has been around for at least 40 years.
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1. Take two inexpensive, terra cotta, flower pots of appropriate size for your animal and container.
2. Break one up into medium pieces and place the pieces in the other pot.
3. Turn it upside down on cage substrate.
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It is amazing to me how quickly the babies find the entrance, learn where it is for quick escapes, and will even use it as an ambush perch.
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Not a Suboc, but a close friend, who has many different husbandry requirements, but seems to share the security issues with Subocs.

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Good trick. I've used that successfully with gray bands. I've also had some finnicky hatchlings that did much better when given more places to hide. Dusty also pointed out something to me once, that seems obvious, but is easy to overlook. If you have them in a rack system, try to put their boxes in the most private area of the rack (i.e., a corner spot) so they are not right between two other active snakes.

Well, I just had a HUGE response ready and accidentally hit the back arrow and it all got erased, so here's the "abridged version"... LOL

First, I appreciate the kind remarks on my behalf, and while my methods are far from gospel, I have been fortunate to focus on trying to discover the captive needs of this one species. A few months ago, the TPRS count here was 102. Thankfully that number has backed off, but at present all 80 snakes in my collection (mostly TPRSs) are eating frozen-thawed and when I had 102, they were all eating then too.

Bill is right. These snakes are thigmotropic...aka they NEVER see any sunlight in nature, and they are claustroPHILIC -- they LOVE tight places. That is the SINGLE most unifying theme I've seen with TPRSs going off feed...they NEED very TIGHT quarters.

ANYTIME that I've kept TPRSs in anything other than racks (especially glass terraria, or anything even slightly tall and see-through), it's been a circus performance to get them to eat consistently.

But being in a rack is not enough, they have to be VERY small rack tubs...much smaller than you would normally consider for, say, a Corn Snake of the same length. It's the norm for me to keep TPRSs in Vision hatchling tubs (18" long x 7.5" wide x 3.5" tall) until they are almost three years old. And it's almost par for the course, that if I move them up to the next size Vision tub, the V-35 unit (20" x 15" x 5.3" tall), too soon, that the majority will freak out, not calm down, always active due to insecurity, no matter how many hideboxes, and I end up having to move them back to the baby tubs. And of course, their tantrum is over immediately and they start feeding again right away.

Also, I don't typically handle my snakes, especially nervous ones, and especially ones that have a strong feeding response. ('Why fix it if it ain't broke?') These snakes need to feel secure....that is their number one concern. They will starve first.

The Vision racks are also great, because they are black above and beneath each tub...reinforcing that need for tight dark places. I've also had success using melamine homemade racks...those added walls on the sides make a nice dark unit, but DANG they're HEAVY. LOL You can almost blow on the Visions and the will roll for you...yet they're sturdy.

Hope that helps, and if I can think of anything else, I'll add to it.

Dusty Rhoads
Suboc.com

The one with the weak feeding response was in a glass terrarium.

I hope DR hit it on the head with

"ANYTIME that I've kept TPRSs in anything other than racks (especially glass terraria, or anything even slightly tall and see-through), it's been a circus performance to get them to eat consistently."

I was qaurantining him in this tank until his respiratory infection cleared and never switched him back. The other is about a year and half and is in a 28qt rubbermaid which I moved her to three weeks ago. I will move them both back to 15qt tubs and try tome tera cotta hides.

Thanks for all the responses.

One of the few exceptions to this was when I kept a suboc in a rock wall vivarium. The snug underground (under the rock wall, actually) hiding place was his main refuge, though he sometimes rested on the ledges, and I'm sure the former was the main reason he felt secure enough to eat normally.