Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had most of a clutch of eggs hatch and leave their eggs over the weekend. A couple of the eggs did not hatch, and showed no signs of pipping.

I cut one open to find this live, but deformed hatchling inside. He was kinked in all sorts of ways... However, he was also axanthic. No red or yellow, and has that bluish/purplish hue in his bands. This may just be related to all the other deformities he had.

The parents are both wild-caught snakes I collected myself in Levy County, FL. They were collected only a few hundred feet from each other. I only got 5 good live snakes out of the clutch, all normal colored. It'll will be interesting to see if anymore axanthic looking kings are produced from this pair in future breedings.

WoooHoooo... I love it!

New Blood!!!!!
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www.Bluerosy.com

Wow!,.....that's a cryin' shame if that was indeed a very possible new line of axanthic that would have been incompatible with the other known strains. It sure "looks" to be one, but like you said,....who really knows if it would have actually hatched with that coloration or not. Lot's of stuff doesn't hatch because of other lethal genes that were never meant to be.

Years ago, I had some Honduran babies that were kinked and connected like a "paper-doll" that little girls play with!..LOL....it was really disturbingly grotesque..LOL!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Wow!,.....that's a cryin' shame if that was indeed a very possible new line of axanthic that would have been incompatible with the other known strains.

That is not what i find facinating. I like the fact they are from another locale. And they look different from the pattern. Axanthic came from nice "brooksi" type parenatge. Later they were outcrossed. This animal Fox has is something new.

But i bet the farm the axanthic trait IS allelic with what we already have. Most of these traits we have actually cross spp lines. I discovered that when breeding hybrids.

just goes to show all these snake have a common ancestry.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"I like the fact they are from another locale. And they look different from the pattern."

Well, yeah, that's basically what I meant as well as the axanthism itself. His animal definitely has a different look. Very contrasting large squarish blotches, it would have been very inteesting to see how it would have developed(speckling, etc..) as it matured.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

There will be no speckling. These are black and yellow kingsnakes. Some have high band counts and look like dark FL kings, others have fewer bands and look like eastern kings.

These are the parents:

Normal Siblings:

I definitely see what you mean,......no speckling in those versions at ALL!. Makes it suck even more that the one won't make it to become a new latest deal. That's too bad. Thanks for showing those photos.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Gosh darn, those parents looks super cool to me. I love the fact they are wild caught.
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www.Bluerosy.com

where where these collected, they look like easterns to me but I am assuming they are florida kings ?
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Levy County, FL... which is in the northern third of FL on the west coast. They are not quite FL kings, but not quite Eastern kings.

thanks so it is an intergration zone. Very nice animals!!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

it could also be all the snakes pigment did not fully form, you have to duplicate the breeding and see what pops out, you may have a new line and yo may not, it could also easily take more then one more breeding to figure it out. Pigment is the last thing to come in, so often times preemies and deformed neonates are not done "cooking" yet. BUT I would say it's worth tinkering with, after all even "regular" ones are MORE then worth keeping.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

it could also be all the snakes pigment did not fully form,

It IS an axanthic.

you have to duplicate the breeding and see what pops out, you may have a new line and yo may not.

Line yes. Trait no.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"It IS an axanthic"
that you would say axanthic and not anerythristic.

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

>>"It IS an axanthic"
>>that you would say axanthic and not anerythristic.
>>
Isn't Axanthic = Absence of xanthin - Yellow Pigment.....
And Anerythristic = Absence of erythrin - Red Pigment?
I would think Axanthic is correct because the ground color on the 'normal' looking phenotypes is Yellowish and not Red...

Just my explanation....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Geez John...I know...I was just kiddin' around given the use of anerythristic (for FL kings)and axanthic (for "brooksi" around these parts.

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

>>Geez John...I know...I was just kiddin' around given the use of anerythristic (for FL kings)and axanthic (for "brooksi" around these parts.

Sorry Mark....I don't hang around this forum much and did not realize you were making a funny...LOL
See you in Daytona
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

well certainly it was a lame attempt on my part!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

The two terms can be used interchangably. Both yellows and red (in babies) come from the same source.

After all, it is just a name "man" made up anyway.

But I think what Mark (Crimsonking) was referring to was that there is another, more recent strain, of Florida king that is supposed to not be allelic with others. For ease of differentiating for hobbiest/breeders, there was some debate on what should be called anery and what should be called anerythristic. But it is all good.

At least I think that was what he was referring to..
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>The two terms can be used interchangably. Both yellows and red (in babies) come from the same source.
>>
>>After all, it is just a name "man" made up anyway.
>>
>>But I think what Mark (Crimsonking) was referring to was that there is another, more recent strain, of Florida king that is supposed to not be allelic with others. For ease of differentiating for hobbiest/breeders, there was some debate on what should be called anery and what should be called anerythristic. But it is all good.

O.....I.....C.....LOL
See you in Daytona too....You staying in the same place south of the pier?
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

I am one who thinks that BHB Anery is different than N.E. or Lemke Axanthics.
For me this kinked snake was a BHB type Anery....
If it was alive [and Ive seen things like this here too] I believe it was "done" cookin...it just went into some developmental chaos we will never understand and came out a mess...
My money says the parents are het Anery.
I dont think offspring from this pair will ever be speckled...and that is one differentiating thing that in my opinion sets Axanthics and Anerys apart.
The siblings are really nice! Love those. Killer project, next year should be interesting.
Good luck with it
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

With it being a deformed snake there is the chance colors had just not formed yet. I've had "premature" snakes and turtles before, and while all hadn't fully developed colors, none had such a striking lack of color like this.

Obviously I'm hoping there is a recessive axanthic trait at work here, but future breedings are in order to prove it out.