Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi. I am new to this forum. Not very tech savvy and not sure if I'm doing this right, but here goes. We recently bought a 2 year old bearded dragon about 3 months ago. He is about 18 inches long. I haven't weighed him. He seems to look similar to other beardies that I've seen pictures of on this forum. We can't get him to eat his veggies. He never really has. We feed him crickets & superworms (which he absolutely goes berserk over). I can't remember where I heard, but I thought I heard that It's not too good to give them too many worms because they can get too much build up of ?chitin? (I put ? because I'm unsure of the name). Also, I heard that their diet should consist of at least 60% veggies, but I can't get him to eat ANY. If it's not moving around, he just isn't interested in eating it. I've tried holding it in front of his mouth, he'll taste it, but won't eat it. I've tried romaine lettuce, broccoli (which the previous owner said he loves), zucchini, carrots, red cabbage, red grapes and apples. I chop them up into about 1/4" or smaller pieces. I've tried putting them into his feeding bowl and tried holding them in front of his face. I tried putting the worms in his dish with the veggies - nothing.

He's also been very sleepy. He's slept for two whole days. His 75 watt basking bulb burned out and I got a new one, but the guy at the store told me a 50 watt would be sufficient. It doesn't seem to be getting his basking spot to 100 degrees, like I've heard it should be. It was more like 85-90 degrees. I just got a 75 watt bulb tonight. I was wondering if he's sick or maybe he was doing winter shut down since it's not been as warm in his cage. Does it have to be winter to go into shut down? Under normal circumstances, how long should he be awake and how long should he sleep and when? Will he be awake at night or sleep during the day? What is considered "normal". How can one tell if their beardie is a sick beardie and how can I find a knowledgable herp vet in my area? Also, a different employee at the same store recommended a product called ReptoMin SoftGel to entice him to eat more veggies. He said to mix it into his veggies in his food dish and recommended I try more red items like red lettuce and strawberries. He said something about the color red being more appetizing. Anyway, let me know your thoughts or if you need more information.

First off, Congrats on your new pet. Beardies are awesome pets and can become very personable once they get comfortable around you. It may take him a couple of days to go back to a normal eating habit, just mainly because of the stress of the move. So dont freak out, he should soon begin eating normally. As for the temperature, I personally recommend trying to keep the basking area between 90-95 degrees.. w/ a coolside of 78-85.. or somewhere within those lines. Buying a thermometer is highly recommended, so that you can keep track of your scaley new friends temp. There are several different styles... the round thermometers work perfectly fine and are inexpensive, and for a few dollars more you could get a digital w/ probe which are great too, I like the zoomed (name drop lol) ones.

As for the feeders..
Crickets are a great mainstay.. and the superworms should be done more as a treat, the outer shell that they have are sometimes hard for them to digest, especially if they eat a ton of superworms. But there are several different feeder items that you can toss together for some variety. With all my dragons I do a mixture of Crickets, Phoenix Worms, Waxworms, feeder roaches (turkish, dubia, madagascar hissers).. mealworms, and superworms. I like to give them a variety, but my mainstays are the cricks, P.W, and the roaches **they love them!** Also, they dont have near the shell issues as w/ supers... and have a higher meat/shell ratio.. so definately look into them. IMO

As for greens/veggies...
I do a mixture of Turnip Greens, Mustard Greens, Collards, Kale (occassionally...kale is high in calcium, but also in phosphorus, which blocks calcium) Squash, carrots, Strawberries.
Never feed your dragon - Iceburg Lettuce, or Spinach or Citrus.. alot of citrus has some acidic problems, and Ive seen them cause issues w/ BDs

After you check your temps and stuff, if you need to go up in temp, just increase the wattage bulb, and if you need to go down, downsize.
Once a week, give your new friend a lukewarm bath/soak, during this time he will drink and often helps digest any unprocessed foods also.
I hope this helps, and I hope I didnt leave anything out thats not common sense. LOL. Twas a loooooonnngggg day!!
Good Luck, and congrats!!

- Eric Watts

Hi there...good thing you got on this forum to ask questions...Eric's info on feeding was great..the leafy greens are VERY important [mustard,turnip,collard] dragons will also eat mulberry leaves if you have a tree...free food in abundance.Basking temp.REALLY should be around 105...I never go higher than that[ I've owned beardies for 16 yrs. bred for 14] but some websites say higher.One thing you will find out is that pet store employees DO NOT have knowledge on most of the reptiles in their stores.Always ask a breeder or go to a LONG-TIME breeder's website to look at the care section.You probably need a 100 watt bulb to get the temps.where you need them...and veggies are far more important than fruit..the color can attract[red ] but the greens are what will supply the vit. minerals needed for health.Hope all goes well and dragon stays healthy

Eh now! Its not fair to say that ALL pet store people/employees dont know about most of the animals in their store. Im one! lol But that is very true, but mainly in large chain stores such as petsmart/petco and places like that. Ive found that alot of smaller petstores have alot better info, and focus more on the animal... but yeah.. LOL. just teasing you though.

But great info

oh... and great question from last post on what size cage and full spectrum or not!

For pgw..didn't mean to insult...some employees know their stuff but a great majority don't.Best to buy a book or get on a long-time breeder's website.I never put up a website myself because I sell at monthly shows...4 to choose from in my area.

I keep my basking area at 110=115. A 50 watt flood light, not bulb will do that for you with some sort of raised stone. A good temperature gun is worth its weight in gold.

I don't do a lot of veggies, but tons of greens. He will eat better when the temps go up. If you cut up leafy greens and put them on top of a bowl of superworms, the moving worms will move the veggies and make them more interesting.

I soak my adults at least 3 times a week. Very dry here in Vegas.

Good luck.
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www.moonstonedragons.com

For adult dragons the basking spot should be 95-120F, ideally areas of the basking spot should have different temperatures in that range for him to bask in as he needs.

He does need to be eating far more greens, adults should only get about 10-20% of insects each day, of their total food intake.

broccoli and all the lettaces (romaine, ice berg, red leaf, boston) are very low in nutrition and shouldn't be fed as a staple. Mustard greens, collard, greens, dandelion greens, turnup greens, endive, escaroli, these greens can be feed daily (best thing to do is buy 2-4 of these and mix them up, alternating between them every month or so to ensure variety. Other greens and some vegetables can be added to the mix in lesser amounts as well.

Dragons do seem to like the color red but its not good to have too many 'red' vegetables and fruits. A little bit is fine but keep it to only a few pieces per salad. A few edible flowers is good too. (hisbiscus, pansy, dandelion flowers, clover...are all good. If you get them from outside, make sure its from areas that have not been sprayed with insecticides, or herbicides or other poisons. Wash well).

www.beautifuldragons.com has a great nutrition chart and guide on what to feed, how much and how often.

A few things you didn't mention in your previous post. What size cage do you have your dragon in? Are you providing UVB light? What substrate are you using? How are you measuring temperatures? How long do you leave the lights on per day?
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PHLdyPayne

Thank you so much for all the responses and so quickly!!! I'm so glad we found this forum - so much knowledge! We've learned so much just from reading all the posts. Thank you to whomever created this and to all the people who respond. It has made the task of caring for our new family member less daunting.

PHLdyPayne, in response to the questions you asked: The size of his cage is 30"x18"x12" I think I was told it is a ten gallon tank; yes, I am using a UVB light; the substrate we have is ground english walnut shells; we are measuring the temperatures with little round thermometers that stick to the wall inside his cage, we have two, one that is directly under his basking bulb right by where he sits and basks and a second one on the other side of his cage where he has a hollowed out log, it is down low next to the hollow log so we can tell how hot each area is - I think we will invest in one of those temperature guns though. Do you just get those at the pet store?; last question you asked - we keep the lights on about 10-12 hours per day.

Sorry it took a few days to respond. I will try to check back more frequently.

I'm not sure what size your enclosure is. But if it's a glass terrarium from a pet store with a sliding screen top here are the sizes commonly available. 36 x 18 x 12 High = 30 Breeder, 30 x 12 x 12 High = 20 Long. I never would, but some people keep adults in 30 Breeders, a 20 long is only for juveniles and babies. The proper adult enclosure size is at least 4' x 2' of floor space.

Ground English Walnut shells are the worst substrate for BD's. They have sharp edges that can cut their insides if some is accidentally ingested. Many BD's have died from this, but pet stores still continue to sell and recommend it. If you want to use a particular substrate I would recommend children's play sand.

The round analog thermometers are extremely inaccurate. You should upgrade them to digital.

I've never seen temp. guns in pet stores. You'll probably have to order one online.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TMKMT100

Lights should be on 12-14 hours daily. It's best to use a timer so that days start and end consistently.

You can buy infrared temp guns right here on the classifieds. Buy them from LLL Reptile, or Reptile Basics, or Twin Cities Reptiles, there are PLENTY of reptile stores and dealers that sell temp guns.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

The question was "Pet Stores"

BDLvr covered all the points I was going to make. The size of tank you have sounds like a typical 30 gallon... Whatever size tank you have is definitely larger than a 10 gallon tank.

Adult dragons do need more space too, the size of thank you have is barely wide enough for him to turn around comfortably (18" long lizard in a 12" wide cage...sure his tail can bend, but makes for cramped quarters.) Cage furniture then adds further obstacles making the cage more cramped.

It would be a good idea to buy or build a large adult cage for your dragon. Go for at least 4'x2' of floor space with height between 18"-24". Best to have glass doors in the front, instead of the top of the cage. Also include vents on either side to allow for good air flow.

Back to your original problem...if he's still lethargic and not eating...a vet trip would be a good idea. If possible, bring in a fresh stool sample too.
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PHLdyPayne

How can I find an experienced Herp Vet in my area? I live in Central Utah, USA.

Try:

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

Or

http://www.arav.org/ECOMARAV/timssnet/amm/tnt_mdsearch.cfm

The important thing to understand is the difference between a basking spot temp. and an ambient temp. I use the analogy of walking barefoot on a road on a warm sunny day. The thermometer on the wall is telling the ambient temp. say 90 but the road is much hotter and can burn your feet. The surface temp. of the road is like a basking spot and much hotter than the 90 degrees shown on a thermometer. Surface temp. can be measured with an infrared temp. gun or you can take the probe of a thermometer and place it in the center of the light on the basking area. My ambients on the hot side are 90 and my basking spots are 105-110. I don't agree with basking spots at higher temps. than this.

I've had my beardie for less than a year, but have owned reptiles for over 5 years.

I can tell you that whenever a reptile looks lethargic and it isn't winter time, you should get him to a vet for a physical, and fecal analysis. He could have parasites, a calcium or vitamin deficiency, or what have you.

Once he is cleared, you can try different things. Are the veggies you offer him frozen or canned? Throw those out! Feed him only fresh ones. Offer him new things. I just discovered recently that mine loves rose petals! I offer mine squash blossoms, fresh blueberries, and now mulberry leaves!

Offer him fresh picked dandelion flowers, clovers, dandelion leaves, kale, turnip greens... Go on a field trip to your local farmers market!

Wanda