Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am a decent size breeder. I am not posting my name or location for obvious reasons.

Last night I got a knock on the door, to my surprise there stood a police officer. I asked him "how can I help?". He indicated he received notification from the city hall (someone was complaining) I was housing boas and rodents. I asked him if it was illegal, he said "no", but he need to come in and make sure everything was "ok". I told him absolutely not. He needed to get a warrant if he wanted to enter in my house. I neither confirmed nor denied I had snakes. I just told him everything I owned was legal and he was wasting his time. I gave him my name and nothing else, he then left.

Also, I might add, I have never allowed anyone in my house from the city in which I live. I also have never told neighbors about my hobby, it is none of their business. .....However, I have my house for sale. I have a surveillance camera, and after further review, this cop was the last person to come look at my house with a realtor. I kept the "boa room" locked with a note indicating it was off limits.

Before I moved here, I checked out the City Ordinances. We can have boas up to 6'. Also, there is no limit as far as how many you can have. Also, I keep the professional cages locked and clean at all times.

I am looking for feedback from anyone else who may have had a similar experience or advise.

Thank you for your response.

Just wondering, did you send any e-mails or faxes or calls to your or any other senators lately about any of the bills in the house or senate???

I have contacted my senator. However, he (cop) said he knew I had rodents in my garage. The only person that would say that would be a person who has been in my house.

Thanks for responding

I think you did good. It sounds like we have the same laws. I do
have to say that THEY WILL GET A WARRANT. They feel you might
have drugs and some other crap that you might be hiding from them
even though you have a right to your own PRIVACY. I have my Boas
at my Bro's house and I think someone tipped them off (another
story)and had a warrant presented to my friend. Thank god I am
not into Burms, Rocks, Retics, and Anacondas, or else they were
trying to say they would be taken/put down and had give my buddy
(they dont care who owns them, owner of house owns them)a
citation. If they show up again without a warrant, my best advice
coming from someone who went through this is to just let them in
and let them finish whatever suspicions they have so they dont
come back. IMO this society is STUPID and they think EVERYONE is
guilty for something. God Bless
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Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....

You have tapes of the Officer at your house with a realtor as a prospective buyer? I assume you also have tapes of the Officer at your house again in uniform? I don't think you will hear from this particular Officer again. If you do, call the police department and file a greivance for harrassment. If this Officer cares about his job, then he won't be back. I think what you have is man who liked your house but wanted to know what was behind locked doors before he put in a formal offer. Keep your cameras on and taping. You shouldn't have any problems.

Exactly what I was going to say! Thanks for saving me some typing!

You have tapes of the Officer at your house with a realtor as a prospective buyer? YES I assume you also have tapes of the Officer at your house again in uniform? NO, I would not let him inside.

What concerns me is that he made the comment that he knew I had rodents in my garage. I told him that means someone has been in my house and I may be in to see him later regarding someone tresspassing. I was at that point the light bulb went off in my head and I recognized him as the guy that came to my house the week before. (*I had a Home Alone moment where the cop smiles and his gold tooth sparkles*).

I am wondering if I should call this clown out on this. I was thinking of going to the City Hall and see if someone complained. If not, then walk to the police department and speak with the Chief regarding this cop using his badge for possible personal gain. If yes, walk over and file a complaint for someone tresspassing. Or should I shut up and let it go?

Thanks for responding.

No need for an argument.
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Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....

to draw more attention to yourself and bring more people to know the fact that you keep reptiles and rodents at your home? If you are this concerned about ONE person knowing, why run to 5 more people and announce it? Until you know all the facts there is no reason to worry yourself. You mentioned that it is legal for you to have boas up to 6' correct? As long as you are in those guidelines, why worry?

What are the rodent laws?? If there is a small colony, some may
target for raising to sell (illegal) even though they are for
your animals only. Just something to think about
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Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....

The issue here is NOT that you have snakes or rodents. The issue here is that a police officer is abusing his power. Hell, how do you know FOR SURE that he's a real cop? This guy could be full of it.

Even if he's not, he's abusing his power. The snakes are not the issue and he should be called out on it.

That is why I am upset. I think he is using his badge for personally benefit. He is a cop, my wife has seen the clown before.

or he could be on official department business conducting an investigation and not at all abusing his power. There are two sides to every story. Trust me
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honesty is my only policy

it is just sad that I pay this guys salary and this is what he is doing to "serve and protect" the city I live in.

unless you're the Police Commissioner or the Mayor, YOU DONT PAY FOR ANYTHING. Lets not cop bash here, bottom line here, you think you were the victim of abuse of authority, make the complaint and stop whining about it.
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honesty is my only policy

I own a house and pay taxes. On my tax bill, part of what I pay in is to the City for Fire & Police. It says it on the tax bill breakout.

You pay taxes, its broken down in sections. Each area gets a portion of your tax money. Believe me, you dont pay that officers salary. If it makes you feel better to believe that you do then by all means. Again, If you feel you were a victim of abuse of authority, make the complaint.
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honesty is my only policy

Maybe he was just doing his JOB. Maybe not all police officers are bad. Most are trying to help.

I do have to wonder.... If you have done noting wrong and know you have not broken any laws why not let him in to quash any compaints???

Just my 2 cents.
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Ray & Dustin Bueno
Bueno Brothers Reptiles
www.buenobros.com

Have you ever had your house searched? It's a royal pain in the rear. I ran into it in the last apartment I lived in; they had a warrant out on the guy that lived there before me so I let 'em (not sure if the warrant still applied but didn't want to make a fuss) and damn, it took forever and made a royal mess. I spent probably 3-4 hours fixing the place back up, and that was for a one bedroom apartment. I don't wanna think how long it'd take in a decent sized house. Even when an officer isn't being an ass (and the ones at my place were good people), it's a pain, it's emberassing (they found our damn sex toys) and it's time consuming. If they're just doing it to be pushy, screw 'em.

Not to mention, the guy just has no freaking business in this fellows house.

My fiance and I also ended up in this situation..came home one day with an arrest warrant taped to our door (for the previous tenant) that said they could pretty much break into our apt any time, day or night. I called immediately to let them know that we had just moved in and did not know the previous tenant and that there would definitely be a problem if they entered our apt. I would NEVER let a cop enter my residence unless I absolutely had to. I do not have very good things to say about MOST cops. Most of the ones I've met or worked with have been very rude, and a few even broke the law themselves, but I have also worked with and known some great cops. I think the problem was handled well, you simply told him to come back with a warrant, which is fine..after all, there is a reason that warrants are necessary for searches, this process was put in place for a reason.

So where does the money that pays his salary come from then?

Funny how he doesn't respond to this question...he's probably buddies with the cop who keeps harassing this guy
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Ike Lightner

2.3 BRB (Dugo, Sultan, Roxy, Brazita, & Lucille)

Girl scout cookies and weekend car washes.

Just a thought but this Officer may have been trying to get a look inside the room for his personal interest in purchasing your home. I know a lot of Police Officers and it is not outside their (some NOT all) morals to use the badge for personal gain. If he does not return with a warrant; I would guess that is all it was.

That does sound suspicious.

I actually met with my city's animal control supervisor before acquiring more than a few snakes, and he said that our city has no law about reptiles at all. Therefore, it is legal for me to have whatever I want (within CA F&W law), BUT if they get a complaint, by law, they HAVE to investigate the complaint-that's their job. Now, he said that means they only check for the humane treament of the animals and that there is no smell or waste that affects the neighbors. As long as everything is clean, they've done their part and will address the complainer that ther is no law broken and the animals are being humanely kept.

Your situation seems strange, though. I wonder if there is a way to confirm that there was an actually complaint made against you with the city, or if this guy is acting on his own??? Good luck.
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Pythons; Bci; Bcl
3.0 Crazy Dogs and 2.0 cats
Some Tropical Fish
...........and growing!

I believe this officer is trying to make name for himself. He is
also abusing his privileges as a Police Officer !
I would never let them in my house without a warrant.
I would contact an attorney so you are prepared

bendig covered it great

I wouldn't rock the boat further unless pressed

The Police Officer has abused his badge
that's for certain !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Lar, you dont know that. Plain and simple. There could be a monster investigation into this persons house for all we know. Drugs, guns, snakes. Anything could be going on. Come on guys. Think about it.
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honesty is my only policy

I appreciate your feedback. I am not doing anything illegal. I am not here to bash the police. I am here to get my fellow herpers feedback on how to handle the situation.

I am not whining. I just do not like people who lie or use things to benefit themselves.

my friend, Im am not trying to imply you are doing anything illegal. As a matter of fact, from the limited information I have seen, I think you probably could be right in your assumtion of what happened. What I am saying is that there COULD in fact be a allegation filed somewhere and the officer COULD have in fact been acting within the scope of his authority. How do you know he didnt go back to his boss or the District Attorney or whoever and say....I stopped by and there doesnt seem to be anything going on here. You just dont know. And now, whether or not it was your intention, you have people stating that this officer in fact abused his authority. Innocent until proven guilty applies to Police Officers as well. Thats all I'm really trying to say. For the record, I keep a copy of NY state law as it pertains to reptiles in a frame, hung in my snake room because I fear that some DEC officer who doesnt know the law, may respond to an ALLEGATION and I will have to show him what the law really is. Thanks for your ear.
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honesty is my only policy

Mike I knew this would be a touchy subject for you. I understand how hard a Police Officers job is.
I know both my village Police Chief and 2nd in command pretty well, really good people.

If there is an investigation of a serious felony nature I wouldn't think knocking on the
door would be a way to approach entrance into the occupancy maybe it would be.

Wouldn't the officer have to state that he is conducting an investigation ?

I admit I'm not a Law Officer don't have first hand experience
as an officer investigating potential crime its a tough job.

The way the Officer in question is approaching this situation
makes me question his intentions.

I still will advise a person not to let any Law Officer(who you don't know) gain access to your house.
Once that happens you have given them permission to search the premesis.
So even if your doing something a little illegal or a lot illegal
or not illegal at all.

That's how that goes, they are in your house searching.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I agree but he didn't force his way in and search this persons house did he? When asked, he gave the person a REASONABLE explanation for his visit. Clearly there was something to it because he mentioned snakes correct? Legal or not, are there snakes in the house? Yes, so there is a possibility that an actual allegation exists correct? When he was told he could not come in without a warrant, he left. What more do you want? But lets all go and convict him because we all pay his salary, and he abused his authority because we all say so. I'm just saying be objective.
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honesty is my only policy

Mike you are completely right. Now that I have re read the "Orig post".
I see that he (the Officer) clearly stated that there was a complaint.
It is his job to follow up on a complaint.
I clearly jumped to an incorrect assumption. which I will ad often happens to police,
making the Police officers job far more complicated than it needs to be.
Mike Thankyou for pointing out my error,not fair of me to put blame
where I'm not certain it exists

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Mike,

Questions for you....when someone makes a complaint about something inside my garage that is not visible by the public (i.e. Freedom Breeder Rodent Rack with about 20 mice in it), doesn't that sound strange? Is their a record of who complains so I can follow up with the City Hall and see if the cop is telling the truth? Also, please educate us on "how" an officer is paid. If not by taxes and fines, then what? Educate, please do not get mad.

I think your job is hard for as little as a cop gets paid (I know some get paid good too). But with any profession, you have some good and some bad...right?

Im not mad. I'm not even taking sides. I'm trying to help you see what COULD have been a reasonable explanation before this turns into a cop bash. But you arent interested in that. You want to see it your way no matter what and I can appreciate that. After all, its your experience. The problem is when you start a post like that you are soliciting other peoples negative opinion of police officers. Lets face it, thats why you dont like or agree with what I have said. I hope everything works out for you.
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honesty is my only policy

Mike-

I've got to ask you, again...

If tax money doesn't pay police salary, then what does?

you do pal
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honesty is my only policy

you probobly did right by not letting him in with out a warrent, but be very careful about complaining to the cheif or filing a complaint about him, I tried to do that same thing in my town, HUGE mistake nearly got thrown in jail myself. cops tend to stick together

so do friends
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honesty is my only policy

Yeah, sounds fishy.....

Yeah, may very well be abuse of the badge......

But rock the boat too much and you may just capsize it!!

IMO keep all your surveilance tapes. Write down all you can remember about what was said and date time. And for now keep your mouth shut.

AND, MOST IMPORTANT.... Make copies of everything and get the copies stored in a safe place ASAP - NOT in your house. Best with a friend or relative. That way if crap does come down they can't confiscate and "lose" your evidence.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks Dave. Good advice.

you are fine. I am an officer in a suburb outside of Chicago. My only question is, when he came to see your house with a realtor, was he working or off duty? Perhaps he is actually interested in buying your house but wants to make sure that he isnt going to buy a rat infestation inside the walls that will lead to problems down the road.

As officers we sometimes prefer to live in the city we work in, so it may be legit that he is just doing his homework on some property he likes.

However if thats not the case, I think you did the right thing. Do not allow him to come in without a warrant. Especially knowing the animals are not illegal, if you are not breaking any laws, he has no reason to investigate or "check" on anything.

You mentioned he said "just making sure everything is ok"..... Honestly, sounds to me like he is actually interested in the house and is just doing some homework to see how things are caged to make sure he wont buy into a problem like I said before. That would be my honest guess. I know I would think twice about buying a house where rats were poorly housed, we all know what a pack of rats could do if they got inside the walls. I think you're fine

I posted my response before reading what everybody else has to say. I want to say this before I take a verbal beating from you guys, lol... Yes its true police tend to stick together on certain topics, but we're not ALL bad.... lol. Some of us are civil human beings like everybody else. I just want to put it out there, I am dedicated into this hobby too! I am not a spy or anything. lol. A lot of you guys know me, some personally, and some just from doing business on kingsnake and/or just talking in the forum, Ive been here a while.

Im just trying to give a perspective from the other side of the coin, Im a die-hard boa freak just like the rest of you, so no need to worry. lol, just putting it out there!

Honestly I think it was a harmless visit where the guy tried to use his power as a police officer to get a better look at the house, and more importantly, the room that was locked. I dont agree with the abuse of power in this sense, but thats my honest take on it. My guess is that he's a legit customer that has a little bit of power, and he's trying to use it to his advantage to make sure of things before making a big purchase such as a house.

Thanks for the post and I appreciate the honesty.

Without a warrant, that is basically just a consentual encounter. You didn't let him in and he left...so what?

If he comes back with a warrant, read it. It generally must specifically state what is being sought out. The judge will have reviewed and signed the warrant as well. It is not a pass to search your home for anything and everything. Plain view items once inside may be fair game but your legit so who cares?

As for his comment about City Hall, if it was initiated during a City Hall meeting, that should be public record. That means that you may be able to watch the recorded meeting on local public access channels, read a transcript on the internet or get it in writing somewhere. I am not sure if I would go to City Hall and ask if there has been a complaint against your residence.

He could have simply searched your name on the internet. I know if I type myself into Google, there are pages and pages of snake related items that pop up. Remember that we are a special interest group that is very foreign to the average person. I can see how he might be concerned if he is acting as a potential buyer. I mean, he did a walk through and in his eyes, you had some mysterious room "off limits". Maybe he just wants to know what he may be buying?

Also keep in mind that we use tons of electricity, just like Marijuana growers. Bearded dragons and "pot" love giant heat lamps. Sometimes power companies will tip off police/sheriffs agencies to houses that are using a crazy amount of electricity. That is usually done with a warrant, with no warning and lots of guns.

"I pay your salary!!!"--usually stated by the people that have no job and do not pay taxes. Cops pay taxes too, I guess you could say they pay their own salaries to be fair.

Bottom line.....just get your house sold. Those crazy cops usually have decent credit and are able to qualify for loans. Might be a solid potential buyer? If your bent, tell your realtor you want to move on to the next in line impatiently waiting to view your house for sale. Or just go to the P.D. and file a complaint.

OK, off to work to pay more taxes. I heard there is a guy with a Burmese python and a 2 year old daughter, selling crack and that needs another welfare check.

.
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honesty is my only policy

Hello, If you had nothing to hide then why not let him take a look around. A perfect opportunity to possibly educate someone and better yet that someone was law enforcement. In our society those who wear the badge continue to illicit strong feelings of respect and admiration from the communities they protect. Having a person who is held in such high regard within a community towing the party line of those who keep reptiles is a win win situation. Remember the golden rule of giving all those you meet on your journey thru life the benefit of the doubt. In the end I hope nothing comes from this and your in the clear. Keep the faith. Take care. Andrew

My wife and I recently bought our first house, but our search lasted about 6 months. There was one house we came across that had one room taped off and the notes to our realtor said we were not to enter this room. Well, I went inside the room anyway and it seems that room had caught fire and the owners obviously didn't want us to see it. The officer you are worried about might have just wanted to see what was behind door number 1. Even if he knew you had boas and rodents, that might not have mattered at all, maybe he was just wondering how the room was taken care of. Like no smells, stains etc. Anyway, just my two cents.
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If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free to stand in front of them!

Is there even the slightest chance you have any boas that exceed 6'?

If you're a "decent size breeder" like you say, my guess is you probably have several that are in the 7-9' range, right? Is that, perhaps, what you're worried about?

The curious thing is that he knew you were housing boas. Not pythons, or venemous, or colubrids. Boas.

Since you're a breeder, do you ship animals from your house? Is it possible that the UPS or FedEx driver discussed with a neighbor what you ship as according to most rules, you are supposed to label the boxes with what's in them, to ship. Perhaps that's a possibility?

A lot doesn't add up about your post, just wanting to clarify a few points.

jb
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Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Jonathan,

Good catch. I stand corrected....he did say snakes not boas. I am not worried about the 6' limit. Sure I have some that are close. All the breeders I have had since they were babies so they have been raised real slow and they are smaller than most boas you see.

I drive about 30 minutes to ship. I always park in the garage so no one would see anything. I have lived in this city for 6 - 7 years.

Does your realtor know about the snakes/rodents??

If so,is it possible that your realtor said "something" about the room that was locked? Like what was in it?

It's hard to say, if the Police Officer was there for personal interests or not. I know I would never consider buying a house if I didn't get to see "all" the rooms. I choose to believe he was responding to a complaint. If he was truely interested in buying the house, he "most likely" would have said so.

BTW if he had just shown up and said he was interested in buying the house, but wanted to check out the room that was "off limits"... Would you have shown it to him??

I would have a problem letting "anyone" into my snake room. I don't have anything to hide, but I don't want "just anyone" knowing what I have.

Since you're selling your house, you should try to make arrangements to keep your snakes somewhere else. That way, there won't be any rooms that are off limits and potential buyers can see the entire house. It might sell more quickly that way.

It was his realtor. I leave a note at the front entry way. It states, that I keep the door locked due to a valuable collection. Also, it says I am willing to show the room on the 2nd or 3rd showing with me being present. I give the dimensions as well, on the listing report.

On the 2nd or 3rd showing, I would have disclosed I have reptiles in the room. I would have prepared the client on what to expect. I do not want anyone having a heart attack in the house.

I spoke with an attorney and many realtors and they indicated this is the best way to approach this situation, since I do not have anyone that is willing to hold on to them for a few months. Not to mention, I would be a nervous dad knowing the kids are with someone else