Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just something that keeps crossing my mind lately...it's seeming to me that we're reaching the point where so many crosses have been created now that there are VERY few new ones that are even impressive. They're all running together and are becoming discernable. Now there are 5 different combinations that look all look exactly the same. It's getting redundant...I'm bored and need a new species to work with. Talk about supply and demand, when every single person can have their own unique morph bcause there are SO many combos, it's like we've come full circle to where they're not really unique or different at all. Just my opinion.

They are the next big thing, with Albinos, Axanthics, Codom traits, crosses, there are so many looks and types to work with, every carpet is truely unique. Lots of cool stuff going on in the carpet world...
-----
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick

Ya know, I've actually been looking into Carpets lately. Haven't had one in years. I'm still keeping my Balls. I'm not giving up on producing my Super Cinnies, Streaks, Bullets, Pewters, Super Granites (hopefully), etc. next year. I just need something ELSE too. And then just in general, observing how I think it's kind of a slap in the face/wake-up call that we're (not me, personally) hitting the super quadruple co-dom recessive stuff, and a lot of them are just...dull.

I know what you mean. I think the next things to be done in ball morphs are triple recessive animals like a caramel glow pied or caramel snow clown. I think the quad co-doms are getting redundant but the recessive traits are where the eye popping combos should be.

I agree with you that carpets may be the next big thing but the only issue with carpets is the space and their temperaments. Balls are really easy to house but carpets are mostly arboreal so I feel bad or irresponsible to house them in tubs like balls or other terrestrial snakes. Retics have many beautiful morphs as well but their size is the main issue plus their insane feeding response and attitude. I know there are many people who house carpets in tubs and racks but I just feel bad. Its like housing green trees in tubs and racks with out perches.

ie: There's a dozen different colour combos that all end up the same poopy brown colour.

BB
-----
"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

If they could ever get the hypos to quit "puking" and the anerys to stay anery and the other morphs to reproduce at a normal rate, the Brazilian Rainbow will be HUGE!

I started a discussion last week on the Rainbow Boa Forum about the Red Mountain Boas (got deleted, hmmm, wonder why) being retardedly overpriced. These HAITIAN BOAS are being MARKETED (haha, I can't resist pointing out BS) as the next big thing in herp-culture. Haitian Boas are my all time favorite species next to Copperheads, but in general, all of the Epicrates are just a niche snake. They don't and never will appeal to the masses the way Balls or BCI/BCC do. Don't get me wrong, I personally love them, but they're just not the kind of snake that appeals to everyone, whether it be because of their appearance, husbandry or just general availability and prominence, etc. Again, just interjecting my own opinion.

I remember your Haitan boa thread! I've bred Brazilians for years and they always sell! They're moderately sized, always eat, mild-mannered and most of all, they're red, orange, purple, pink, etc. You plug a bunch of different morphs into that, and you my friend, have a home run!

i was dissapointed to see your haitian boa thread deleted aswell. Are they being marketed, YES, but so have so many other species. Its the way it goes, and credit to the guys for trying. There KS ads do say that those adult animals got sold though, so will maybe it worked.
I believe there will soon be a market for rainbows, not just brazilians but also columbians. The columbians might look duller as adults, but there is a lot more morphs available (ok maybe not available, lets just say in private collections Rainbows seem to be the kind of snakes, that many many herpers keep, but not in large numbers.
To the original poster, IMO, carpets, hoggies and rainbows will see a good following. Plenty of base morphs to work with, and then just go from there.
I mean look at balls 10-15yrs ago, what was there? Pastels, albinos, pied etc, but not many morphs. Once the crowds got in on the action the market exploded, and once the money came in, more morphs were magically discovered!! I cant see why that wont happen in the other species i mentioned. Its happened in corns, then balls and so on.
IMO so many people want to be the first to produce something, but unless you have 100k to spend in balls its not really going to happen. Yeah some new stuff gets made by small breeders, but essentially its stuff thats already been made, just with a slighty different co dom. Spider vs woma vs pinstripe.
How long is it till the ball market gets like the corns, ie you buy a normal, the ends up being het for 6 different traits???
To the OP, buy what you like, and enjoy it for what it is. It seems every species have its own little niche morph market if you look hard enough.
-----
Dave

13.19 brbs

...that always ends up in the same spot. Some whitish snake with a dirty head...OMG do I hate the BEL complex and ALL the variations.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I have gotten so much more enjoyment from the 5 Yellow-tail Cribos I just got than from any ball python.

The great thing about Indigos and Cribos is that in their pure wild form they are always spectacular with the added bonus of a larger size and a truly unique and even intelligent personality in each animal.

You just can't get that from a ball python...period.

Just my opinion.
-----
Take care,

Alex Pepper

CBB '07 1.1 Aspidites ramsayi--Woma Pythons (Don Hamper/Rare Earth Stock)
CBB '08 1.1 Bothrochilus boa--Bismarck Ringed Pythons (Tom Keogan Line High Contrast)
CBB '07 1.0 Heterodon simus--High Red Southern Hognose Snake (Tom Pinson Line Red)
CBB '07 1.1 Pituophis catenifer sayi--Marathon, Texas Out-crossed Stillwater Hypomelanistic Bull Snakes
CBB '08 1.1 Pituophis melanoleucus lodingi--Black Pine Snakes (John Ginter Stock)
CBB '06 & '08 1.1 Eublepharis macularius--Blazing Blizzard & Reverse Stripe Tangerine Albino Leopard Geckos "Blaze" & "Angie"
CBB '02 0.1 Hemitheconyx caudicinctus--Stiped African Fat-tailed Gecko "Smeagol"
CBB '03 0.1 Canis domesticus--Cocker Spaniel "Cupcake"
CBB '99 0.1 Canis domesticus--Yellow Labrador Retriever "Freckles"

Happy Herping!

~np!

Seriously, and I'm being deadly serious here, the next big thing in snakes is going to be retic morphs bred into superdwarfs.

Think about how incredibly beautiful retic morphs are (albinos, titaniums, platinums, ivories, golden childs, ghost stripes), and they are far and away better than any other snake around.

Now imagine those morphs bred into superdwarfs so that females are less than 10' and males are less than 8'. A 10' female retic is about the size (girth, weight) as a columbian boa female.

How many people would want some of those? The only thing that could possibly keep this from happening is if retics become regulated.

I LOVE Retics! Forgot to mention them...top 4 favorite species I've been enamored with since I was a kid, Haitian Boas (all the Insulars really), Copperheads, Pine Snakes, and Retics. You're absolutely right. I think just about any Albino is downright ugly, except for Retics. I prefer Lavenders though over Purples because the Lavs seem to be a lot more attractive as they age. Just brighter all around. And of course the size is the only problem...freakin monsters. It would be great if the coloration of the mainland Albinos can be bred into the Dwarfs eventually, because at this point, Dwarfs don't appeal to me at all. Way too drab.

So you don't like albinos or piebalds

Albino Balls have never appealed to me. My eye is always caught more by darker coloration. I wouldn't mind having an Albino female or 2 around now to breed into Cinnies Because the Cinny Albinos ARE very impressive (to me). For Albinos in general, to me it destroys the color, and I don't like red eyes...except on myself.

As for Pieds...the ABSOLUTE ugliest snake on the planet! They just look like something puked Clorox on a perfectly good Ball Python. I've never understood the appeal, whatsoever...to me.

Superdwarfs look very similar to mainlands. Jampeas and kayuadis both have a very distinct look to them, but SDs are closer to the normals. I have a 50% SD het albino girl, and she looks just like any mainland retic. Just a lot smaller.

Sounds nice. I can't say I've ever noticed any Dwarves that reminded me of Mainlanders. Really though, a "huge" part of what makes Retics so spectacular is their size.

It's true, it's true. But they do keep the majority of keepers away. Plus the extra cage space, the rabbits, the incredibly large craps...and you can see why a smaller version would be more popular.

>>It's true, it's true. But they do keep the majority of keepers away. Plus the extra cage space, the rabbits, the incredibly large craps...and you can see why a smaller version would be more popular.

More popular but still too big for lot of Ball breeders.

Where it's possible to have 20 balls, you can have 5 SD retic (or bigger pythons or boa).

That will keep people away. The big clutch will also. The combos are easier when you have 15 eggs than 5-6 (or less). So price drop faster and blah blah blah.

Well, I don't care if balls are not popular anymore or what so ever. It will make them easier to purchase for others who will still love and breed them

Cause I will still love them.

btw : a few years ago, Chondro were suppose to be the next big thing. With albino, blue etc... They are beautiful but because they are harder to breed, take more time to mature, breed etc... looks like they didn't really caught. I think any bigger snakes would do the same.

Next big thing, won't come. If it does it will be small. Sand Boa, colubrid or just wild type snakes like it used to be
-----
love this world, don't hate it.

I have a pair of adult SD x dwarf het albinos that I hope to have breed for the first time this winter... great animals! But higher maintenance than Ball Pythons and I do believe as wonderful as these animals are, I do think that market will never reach "ball python" portions... I'm just delighted to have the opportunity to work with them, simply amazing animals! I always loved retics, but they just got too big... the Super Dwarfs are a size that I'll deal with

Original Dwarf Albino Father (produced by Bob Clark):

Male Het Albino:

Female Het Albino:

Hope to produce lots of albinos this coming season!

Regards,
Bristen.

>>Seriously, and I'm being deadly serious here, the next big thing in snakes is going to be retic morphs bred into superdwarfs.
>>
>>Think about how incredibly beautiful retic morphs are (albinos, titaniums, platinums, ivories, golden childs, ghost stripes), and they are far and away better than any other snake around.
>>
>>Now imagine those morphs bred into superdwarfs so that females are less than 10' and males are less than 8'. A 10' female retic is about the size (girth, weight) as a columbian boa female.
>>
>>How many people would want some of those? The only thing that could possibly keep this from happening is if retics become regulated.

-----
___________________________
www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

Pick a couple projects that appeal to you and work them. I have two or three I am working towards. I personally dont care if there is one of these snakes in the world, or 3 million by the time I hatch one...thats not the point. I have been working my Pied project for 4 1/2 years. I have spent far more this way than if I waited and just bought one...its not the point. One sweet day MY Pied will look up from the egg and I will own that snake until one off us kick.

The people spending 20k on a snake thinking they are getting a jump on everyone else just might be....or maybe not? But that is a whole different thread I believe?

Of course an Axanthic Albino Spider Super Mojave is going to just be another white snake. There are so many combinations of different morphs with so much more potential that haven't been done yet, not to mention I haven't seen many people working with anything line bred. The Ball Python still has a big future, especially considering what an economic pet it is even compared to other species of snakes.
With that said, Boas are cooler

I agree that a ton of stuff has been done, and it's getting a bit redundant, but just wait...
many people are growing up dinkers and captive hatched babies that will pan out...and BAM, we'll have the next wave of awesome to hit the market.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I made fun of Chuck for 3-4 years with his "paint balls"....then he went and proved them out making a super cool snake and me look like an idiot all in one fell swoop. Still lots to be done.

I do get where the OP is coming from, that's why I started playing with corns and leopard geckos again. Nice to have a little variety
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

I hear what you are saying....however...
(Just thinking of Ball morphs)
There are so many interesting crosses that have yet to be done.
So many simple two trait combos that have not yet been made.
We have so many unanswered questions. Some of these combos or "yet to be seen" super (homozygeous) forms will be surprisingly different from what we might expect to see.
The genetic code is to complex to get boring.
Even without any of the new "dinkers" proving out....we have years of projects to keeps us busy with yet to be seen combos!
Some will not be so impressive....others will steal our breath.

But, if you are still feeling a bit jaded with the Ball Python game...
You NEED to look into the BLOOD PYTHONS! Very fresh.
THEY ARE AWESOME!
Lots of fun stuff on the horizon with the Bloods.
Totally different colors and patterns to play with. Interesting traits...some that are very different from what you are used to seeing in the Ball Pythons.
It is only going to get better!

Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

Bloods are definitely cool. Really similar to Balls though in their general nature. I don't think I have any desire to breed anything other than Balls, cause they're so much fun in that aspect. I just need some new flavor in my snake room...so hard to decide what to pick.

You are right, ball pythons suck, go to other things before it is to late, I will help you by buying all your recessives for $50 a pop, just the kind of guy I am... always willing to help out my fellow herpers.