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Duval Co. Florida King question

richh Aug 25, 2009 03:58 PM

We visited a small wildlife center in Jacksonville, Fl. earlier this year that display local herps. They had mentioned to us it's now 6 years and counting and they have yet to acquire a Kingsnake from this area (Duval County) to display. It is true that they were very common in pet stores some 8-10 years ago but I can not find any of them now either. Figured to start checking the wild but thus far no luck at all. I originally thought this to be an easy task.

Anyone familiar with this King and possibly working with this locale? They were marketed as "Suwanee Kings".

Thanks, Rich Hebron

Replies (20)

Tony D Aug 25, 2009 04:26 PM

Rich I lived in Duval Co for three years. While there I saw a single juvenile DOR king. It looked more eastern than FL.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

richh Aug 25, 2009 05:05 PM

Hello Tony, yes, there is an overlap here between the Eastern and Florida King. Both traits (patterns) were displayed in a couple I had years ago. This made for a very nice looking king, at least in my opinion. I meant to put a comma after Duval County in the subject line. Could not go back and edit.

Bet you came upon many racers and yellow rats in this area back then.

DMong Aug 25, 2009 05:45 PM

Nick Mesa(Foxturtle) has at least one Osceola-Suwannee morph from the Pinellas area, and is an absolutely stunning example. It looks almost identical to an Outer Banks"sticticeps" with a crisp, contrasting pattern, with tons of speckling!

No doubt this is different from the Duval county specimens you are referring to though, but still awesome looking just the same.

Good luck locating some!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Jlassiter Aug 26, 2009 02:23 PM

>>Nick Mesa(Foxturtle) has at least one Osceola-Suwannee morph from the Pinellas area, and is an absolutely stunning example. It looks almost identical to an Outer Banks"sticticeps" with a crisp, contrasting pattern, with tons of speckling!
>>

WOW...at least someone else agreed with me that they look surprisingly like Outer Banks Kings.....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

DMong Aug 26, 2009 03:19 PM

Absolutely John,...

From the small pic I was looking at on the cover of Hubbs' new book, I thought it WAS a "sticticeps"..LOL!, after chatting about it a bit, both Brian and I were extremely impressed by this animal!

Indeed a truly gorgeous specimen, and a very uniquely beautiful form as a whole too. Many(including me) think it's probably THE most beautiful form found naturally in Florida.

take care!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Jlassiter Aug 26, 2009 03:33 PM

I agree Doug...About 8 to 10 years ago I saw some Suwanee King pics posted here and believed them to be awesome kingsnakes and that they looked very similar to an Outer Banks King...

Interesting how two different populations can evolve similarly...
One population (Outer Banks) is isolated and the other (Suwanee) has multi-directional gene flow....Hmmmm
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

DMong Aug 26, 2009 03:59 PM

I couldn't agree more on all you mentioned!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

richh Aug 26, 2009 05:11 PM

I would have to agree with you. The two I personally had were of a very large size in both length and girth and exhibited an outstanding pattern. They made impressive captives.

DMong Aug 26, 2009 05:42 PM

n/p
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Tony D Aug 26, 2009 12:48 PM

I really don't recall the racers as much but there were yellow rats out the wazoo!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

RichH Aug 27, 2009 09:22 PM

Yeah, we have racers all over our area now. We were moving some mulch in our front yard a while back. Nice clutch of eggs. See adults occasionally moving through back yards during the summer months. This area, it use to be corns and yellows. But with all the new development racers seem to be moving.

One thing that caught us by surprise was a scarlet king coiled on our front door mat. I wouldn't think them to be in our present area. I have only come across these a bit further to the east and south of us. I sometimes wonder if someone was playing a joke on me as I would mention to my neighbor now and again wondering if they were around. He would hit the forests now and again. One time he received a call from one of our neighbors who had a snake in their yard. It turned out to be a Florida Pine. You know pines have always been my favorite herp. I even wonder sometimes about that pine as we do reside in a very developed area yet there it was sunning on a patio. I love Florida

Nokturnel Tom Aug 25, 2009 07:20 PM

Hey ol buddy! This topic came up recently...
There was a guy with a few males on the classifieds who said he tried for years to find females and finally threw in the towel after never locating any.
Anyones best bet is a wanted ad on the classifieds. This is a tough one... and its like I always say... snakes we think will be available forever slip through the cracks and are lost.
Good luck and I will keep an eye out for you
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

richh Aug 26, 2009 07:28 AM

Hey Tom, thanks for the info. It does appear this king may have become a rarity. Being how spread out Jacksonville is leaves many places one gets to search. Nice getting back out into the field. Gets me back to my roots. Nothing better than coming across herps in the wild, at least for me. I may not ever find this kins but I sure like looking. Good thing is there is always a other surprises for me as Florida is a herp haven.

foxturtle Aug 25, 2009 09:36 PM

then they are keeping it to themselves.

I have heard of a few Duval kings being found in the past 5 or so years, but it seems like most Jacksonville area field herpers just stick to road-cruising the Osceola National Forest.

Searching for kings in Florida these days is tough work, and usually fruitless. It takes the right herper knowing the right spots. If I lived around Jacksonville I would find Duval kingsnakes... But I don't live there, and I doubt anyone is really up to the task.

richh Aug 26, 2009 07:20 AM

Could be. I'm sure there may be a few still being kept by people that do not know what they are. Only herpers I know that cruise the Osceola National Forest these days are looking for a now common non-colubrid. And they are plentiful.

I agree about how tough it is finding Kings in Florida these days. My success has only ranged along areas in Southern Florida, ANF and very rarely Payne's Prairie.

I wouldn't say there are no herpers in Jacksonville that are up for the task. It's more like most if not all have no interest in attempting to actually do it. I have to this date never come across a king in Duval Co. Everything else, yes but never a king.
Most local herpers I have spoken with seem to be uninterested in most kings these days. They have nice ball python groups though. Direction has changed for many. But thats OK, as whatever floats one's boat.

A few years ago I spoke with a pair of herpers that targeted these kings heavily. They let me know of some of the areas they would hit but stated "goodluck" as these places have been cleaned out. I only started looking this season but thus far it's been a challenge, then again my timeing was a little off but I still wanted to get into the field

Duval Co. being the largest (land mass wise) in the Country has as also been a challenge as there are plenty of areas to search. There are two areas I hope to explore later this year when temps cool a bit.

Too bad you are not up here. Would not mind getting some young blood out here in the field. Not being a native does leave me unfamiliar with this area. I like the challenge though. If I find any I may have to keep some back as they do seem to be very rare these days. From what I recall very large and nice looking to boot.

Lindsay Aug 26, 2009 08:25 AM

>>"Duval Co. being the largest (land mass wise) in the Country has as also been a challenge as there are plenty of areas to search."

Shucks, we got individual ranches in Brewster County Texas bigger than all o' Duval.
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Lindsay Pike
Urotopia Uromastyx

RichH Aug 26, 2009 10:21 AM

is alot of things which I'll leave for others to debate

Actually though, Jacksonville does encompass a very large area. One can come across quite an array of habitats. As with many other places habitat destruction has been massive in Florida, with Jacksonville unfortunately far from being the exception.

A little excerpt from Wikpedia:

"Jacksonville is the largest city in the state of Florida and the county seat of Duval County. Since 1968, Jacksonville has been the largest city in land area in the contiguous United States; this resulted from the consolidation of the city and county government, along with a corresponding expansion of the city limits to include almost the entire county."

There you have it. Leaves me with MANY places left to search

Jlassiter Aug 26, 2009 11:52 AM

The largest county equivalent by (total) area is Yukon-Koyukuk Census Area, Alaska, at 147,843 square miles (382,912 km˛), while the largest actual county is San Bernardino County, California, in southern California, which includes the Mojave Desert, at 20,105 square miles (52,071 km˛) in area. The second-largest county is Coconino County, Arizona, in the north-central part of the state, which includes the Grand Canyon National Park.

Don't believe every thing on WIKI....LOL
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Richh Aug 26, 2009 01:04 PM

LOL

My bad.

Let me rephrase and say instead of Duval County, Florida, that I am looking for Kingsnakes indigenous to Jacksonville, Florida which is the largest City (land mass wise) in the contiguous United States and the county seat as Duval Co. as stated in Wikipedia.

Thanks though for the geography info. as I was unaware of the size of those areas.

BTW, are you familiar with this Kingsnake? I would like to at least acquire one for this nature center. Nice small place, but a place that supplys much info. about the region.

Jlassiter Aug 26, 2009 02:20 PM

My only familiarity with this locale of kingsnake is old pics I used to see here on Kingsnake....and I have driven through the area 8 to 10 times and never saw a king on the roads....

They reminded me of speckled chain kings and remined me of Outer Banks kings...just an OPINION on their 'look'....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

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