Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Haven't posted here in a long time. I received 3 new Corns yesterday. A proven breeder Anery Blood female, baby Plasma female, and a tiny baby Charcoal baby. My question is how can you tell the difference between a Charcoal and a Charcoal Ultramel? This little girl's father was a Blizzard. So for sure she is het Amel. Her mother was an Ultramel het Charcoal. So she may or may not be het Ultra (Aka Charcoal Ultramel). This is my first charcoal so I have no means of comparison. Are there any telltale differences between Charcoals and Charcoal Ultramels?

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Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
1.0 het Orange Ghost (Voldemort)
0.1 Pastel Orange Ghost (Nagini)
1.1 Mojave (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
1.1 Pewter (Salazar & Bellatrix)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Pinstripe (Jacob)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)

Corns
1.1 het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Blood (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Blood (Ravenclaw)
0.1 Amel Blood aka Fire (Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Blood aka Plasma (new - no name yet)
0.1 Ultramel Charcoal (new - no name yet)

Western Hogs
1.0 Albino (Hogwarts)
0.1 het Albino (Hufflepuff)

Haven't posted here in a long time. I received 3 new Corns yesterday. A proven breeder Anery Blood female, baby Plasma female, and a tiny baby Charcoal baby. My question is how can you tell the difference between a Charcoal and a Charcoal Ultramel? This little girl's father was a Blizzard. So for sure she is het Amel. Her mother was an Ultramel het Charcoal. So she may or may not be het Ultra (Aka Charcoal Ultramel). This is my first charcoal so I have no means of comparison. Are there any telltale differences between Charcoals and Charcoal Ultramels?

She is a deffinate charcoal ultramel. Her father is a blizzard and her mother and ultramel het. charcoal. When breeding those two you'd get
25.0% Ultramel het. Charcoal
25.0% Amel het Charcoal
25.0% Charcoal Ultramel
25.0% Blizzards
There'd be no way for her to be a charcoal with out being Ultramel. Good luck with her, shes is definately beautiful!

In addition to that, a "charcoal" anery type "B" just looks like a clean version of normal anery, minus the yellow the normal's tend to have on the neck region. With normal eyes(not red).

nice stuff!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks. I was hoping the light gray and the red eyes meant she was Ultramel. Ultramel is a funky kind of morph so the typical genetic figuring doesn't hold true. Ultramel is a snake that is het for both Ultra (a form of hypo) and Amel. The Ultra gene "lives" at the same location as the Amel gene. So her Ultramel mom was genetically normal, het Ultra, het Amel, het Charcoal (Aka Ultramel het Charcoal). So there is no guarantee any of the babies inherited her Ultra gene. You can have a snake with 2 Ultra genes (would be hypo), 2 Amel genes (would be albino) or 1 Ultra and 1 Amel gene (would be Ultramel). So a Blizzard x Ultramel het Charcoal pairing could give you:

Normals het Charcoal & Amel
Normals het Charcoal & Amel & Ultra (aka Ultramel het Charoal)
Amels het Charcoal
Charcoals het Amel
Charcoals het Amel & Ultra (aka Charcoal Ultramel)

which is why I wasn't 100% sure if she was a Charcoal het Amel or a Charcoal Ultramel.

I do not know the percentages of the above combos.

Regardless I love her. Haven't had this tiny of a baby corn in a long time.

Here is a picture of my Plasma (Lavender Blood) girl that I got along with the Charcoal. Pictures do not do her justice...

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Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
1.0 het Orange Ghost (Voldemort)
0.1 Pastel Orange Ghost (Nagini)
1.1 Mojave (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
1.1 Pewter (Salazar & Bellatrix)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Pinstripe (Jacob)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)

Corns
1.1 het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Blood (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Blood (Ravenclaw)
0.1 Amel Blood aka Fire (Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Blood aka Plasma (new - no name yet)
0.1 Ultramel Charcoal (new - no name yet)

Western Hogs
1.0 Albino (Hogwarts)
0.1 het Albino (Hufflepuff)

and yes, blizzards are another possible outcome of that cross, forgot to add that to the list... the breeder did get blizzards in the clutch which all sold fast.
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Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
1.0 het Orange Ghost (Voldemort)
0.1 Pastel Orange Ghost (Nagini)
1.1 Mojave (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
1.1 Pewter (Salazar & Bellatrix)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Pinstripe (Jacob)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)

Corns
1.1 het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Blood (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Blood (Ravenclaw)
0.1 Amel Blood aka Fire (Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Blood aka Plasma (new - no name yet)
0.1 Ultramel Charcoal (new - no name yet)

Western Hogs
1.0 Albino (Hogwarts)
0.1 het Albino (Hufflepuff)

No you could not get any normals from this cross. Because a blizzard is homo amel and would give one amel gene to the offsprng. The ultramel mother would give either an ultra gene or an amel gene so all the offspring would be either amel or ultramel. A blizzard is homo charcoal so he'd give 1 charcoal gene. The mother is het. so she'd give either a gene for charcoal or normal. So what ever offspring get these charcoal gene will be either a blizzard or a ultramel charcoal.

Oh, hadn't thought about it that way. Makes total sense now that you've explained it though. So any non Amel baby would have to be Ultramel then? That's terrific news! I'll let the breeder know as he wasn't totally sure of it himself. Thanks!
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Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
1.0 het Orange Ghost (Voldemort)
0.1 Pastel Orange Ghost (Nagini)
1.1 Mojave (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
1.1 Pewter (Salazar & Bellatrix)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Pinstripe (Jacob)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)

Corns
1.1 het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Blood (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Blood (Ravenclaw)
0.1 Amel Blood aka Fire (Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Blood aka Plasma (new - no name yet)
0.1 Ultramel Charcoal (new - no name yet)

Western Hogs
1.0 Albino (Hogwarts)
0.1 het Albino (Hufflepuff)

Ya the thing is to think of Ultra and Amel as two different versions of the same gene, thats why they react with each other. So having two amel genes is basicly the same as having an amel gene and an ultra gene, if that makes any sense? I know, it gets confusing. Its the same thing with the motley and stripe gene, except the motley is dominant over stripe so a motley/stripe looks like a normal motley.

This is my first experience with the Ultramel gene and it threw me for a loop. Thought I had a handle on it but totally missed that the mom would have had to throw either an Amel or Ultra so any non Amel baby would have to have gotten the Ultra from her, and would have gotten the Amel from the dad, so would therefore be Ultramel. So simple, I feel like a total ditz for not figuring that out. But am very grateful it's been explained to me.

Now, to make sure I have it. I have a Blizzard male. If I breed the Charcoal Ultramel to him when she grows up... would I only get Blizzards and Charcoal Ultramels? The babies would get Charcoal from both so would have to be Charcoal. They would get Amel from the dad, and either Amel or Ultra from the mom. If Amel from the mom that would make a Blizzard. If Ultra from the mom that would make a Charcoal Ultramel. Did I get it?

I also have a normal male het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, and Blood. He's actually the pretty red Corn pictured at the top of the Breeding Issues sub forum. I bought him from Kathy Love when he was just a few days old back in 2002 when she came here to our WNY reptile show. Trying to figure out what I could make crossing him with the Charcoal Ultramel gives me a headache so I won't even try...

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to explain ultramel genetics to me I'm so happy to know my little baby is indeed a Charcoal Ultramel as I'd hoped.
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Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
1.0 het Orange Ghost (Voldemort)
0.1 Pastel Orange Ghost (Nagini)
1.1 Mojave (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
1.1 Pewter (Salazar & Bellatrix)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Pinstripe (Jacob)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)

Corns
1.1 het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Blood (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Blood (Ravenclaw)
0.1 Amel Blood aka Fire (Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Blood aka Plasma (new - no name yet)
0.1 Ultramel Charcoal (new - no name yet)

Western Hogs
1.0 Albino (Hogwarts)
0.1 het Albino (Hufflepuff)

100% correct lol you got it now! Glad I could help and you got what you wanted! Now in a few years you can make some awesome babies with her!.

Everyone else already covered this, but here is a photo of a baby AneryB Charcoal that I hatched this season for comparison to the one you have:

Very cute, definitely different color than mine. Thanks!
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Have you been hugged by your snake today?

Ball Pythons
1.1 het Caramel (Edward & Bella)
1.0 het Orange Ghost (Voldemort)
0.1 Pastel Orange Ghost (Nagini)
1.1 Mojave (Lucius & Renesme)
0.1 Pastel Lesser (Narcissa)
1.1 Pewter (Salazar & Bellatrix)
0.1 Lemonblast (Luna)
0.1 Bumble Bee (Alice)
1.0 Pinstripe (Jacob)
1.0 Bell Pastel (Jasper)
0.1 African Dinker (Esme)

Corns
1.1 het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Blood (Romeo & Juliet)
1.0 Blizzard (Cotton)
0.1 Anery Blood (Ravenclaw)
0.1 Amel Blood aka Fire (Ginny)
0.1 Lavender Blood aka Plasma (new - no name yet)
0.1 Ultramel Charcoal (new - no name yet)

Western Hogs
1.0 Albino (Hogwarts)
0.1 het Albino (Hufflepuff)