Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all, been following the post below about relocation. All posts relating to relocation always refers to research showing box turtles will not survive outside there own territory. Does anyone know of any sources with current scientific research?? The only scientific study I have found is the McKeever(?) study. I would love to get more information on this topic as I am involved in rehab and many times a location found is not known or the habitat has been destroyed.

p.s. - I understand the other related issues of disease, genetics, etc....the territory issue is of greater interest .

Thanks for any information.

If you have access to a college library you can do a search of the Zoological Record.
http://www.biosis.org.uk/products_services/zoorecord.html
You can do it on line but it is expensive. Also, most libraries have it in hard copy and now on CD.
I would use key words like Turtle, Tortoise, Relocation ...
Once you find one paper, look in the reference section and go from there. I'll be willing to bet that the majority of the papers out there are on Boxies or Desert tortoises.
Ed

You would probably enjoy reading "North American Box Turtles, A Natural History" by C. Kenneth Dodd, Jr.
The book devotes a full chapter to the general subject of 'activity, movement, and orientation', and is otherwise very informative.
Also of possible interest to you is "Turtles of the United States and Canada" by Carl H. Ernst, Jeffrey E. Lovich, and Roger W. Barbour.
Both are good references to have on hand.
Regards,
Stephanie

Thanks to both for responding. I will definitely try the zoological record on "down" time this winter for some hardcore reading (didn't know it existed). I have had my eye on a few books.....too many to count...NA Box Turtles is on the top of the list. Fortunately, "turtle" season will be soon into "hibernation" and allow for some pleasure reading/researching. Thanks again, jen.

Its my guess that there have been very little research done in box turtle relocation. The one study u noted is way to small a sample to be very accurate. Its my own feeling that box turtles for the most part will do just fine if relesed in a place other then the one they used to live in. I find box turtle are very hardy and know how to take care of themselfs with out any help.
-----
Jack

Boxies are one of the few turtles/tortoises that have had extensive studies on relocation and home range use.
Ed

I've read a number of these. I have lots of questions for them, though. For instance... in the studies that show the turtles migrating or wandering off from the areas they put them in, I don't see density comparisons to normal wild populations, nor flora listings, nor extensive descriptions of the environment as it compares to their natural ones, and any of those things could cause a box turtle to migrate:
1) overpopulation
2) improper plants
3) differences in environment minor to us, but major to them

In captive husbandry we don't give them a choice to wander, yet in large pens with all their needs met, they do fine still. In this case we "know" their needs are met, but in the wild what do we know about their wild needs?

I guess what I'm getting at is while I don't doubt that boxies will stay in one place if they find a small area with the things they need already provided, the reasons they might wander could have nothing to do with relocation stress. I certainly see no relocation stress with my boxies in my very large pens. I DO see them stress if I put them into indoor setups or small setups, behind glass, etc.

So what I wonder is if the studies of them not surviving or wandering off continually are not flawed. If they provided food and water and shelter in the area on par with what a captive turtle would recieve, they might see less wandering, more survival, etc... but of course then they are not dealing with strictly wild relocation.

It's an odd situation.

I would think what you call 'relocation stress' is an effect and not a cause. The causes can be all that you listed and then some which could include geology, and micro climate.
I wouldn't call the missing factors as 'flawed' but maybe as unknowns. One major point in biology is that there is no way you can talk in definitives. That is why statistics plays such a major role in biology and why it is used in support of a theory or idea.
I think we are saying the same thing though.
I didn't say it couldn't be done or that it couldn't be successful but that there have been studies of relocated turtles/tortoises and the odds are not good for its survival.
Btw, I know of relocation projects that have been successful but that is not the norm.
Ed

I might also not be understanding the question. I don't doubt at all that relocation can be successful, but on a case by case basis, I suppose the question is different. If you look at the current range of the RES, it's apparent that they can succeed if enough are dumped in any given place. At the same time, the survival rate of any one individual is still in question. I suppose it depends on how you look at the question, or what your question even is. I'm not even sure I know what I'm saying.

back to the point...
A boxie was obtained and the question was brought up as to what to do with it.
The question was also raised as to whether it should be released or not... and here we are. I thought it was a discussion on the merits of relocating the animal.
Ed

Thanks for the input and the friendly discussion .