Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The first two Speckled Alterna are out.. They were worth the wait for sure!!

~ Mike Russo

Mike-great job-definitely in lust with those!

Got any 277 hatching?
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Thanks Brad.. The rest of my 277's will be out in the next week or so.

~ Mike Russo

Cool-I have a wc male I'd like to pair up.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Outstanding Mike!

Between those, the high reds, and the anery black gaps, I just cant choose. So much nice stuff going on at your place.

Craig
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God Bless Evolution.

Good on ya!

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Chris Jones
King of Kings Reptiles

http://www.kingofkingsreptiles.com/

"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

Truly remarkable! Great job, Mike!
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Diego

SWCHR

Thanks Diego.. I am happy to say that it's been a good year here so far.

~ Mike Russo

Those are gorgeous Mike. I mean I'd love to have those myself. The question I have is do generic Alterna appeal to people as much as locale? I loved the few morphs I have seen, but I figured Alterna people usually do not care for these? What's the deal? Do Alterna nuts like em all? I thought locale and only locale was in demand
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

wow! too nice! congrats.

Thanks Guys!!

Tom, Your question of "do generic Alterna appeal to people as much as locale?" is a tough one to answer.. You know that I have both generic and local specific animals in my collection and I like them all the same. But, it's tough to answer your question is because it would depend what "people" we are talking about? There are many Alterna keepers out there that are not overly concerned with local data and just like a certain look, blairs, alterna, speckled, etc. BUT, I am sure there are many hardcore local specific Alterna keepers that may not be interested in keeping this type of animal.

I guess the correct answer to your question would be.. Like anything else in this great hobby of ours, there is truly an ass for every seat!

Hope all is well!

~ Mike Russo

Are generic Alterna less finicky when it comes to getting babies feeding?
In my opinion that is really important. I know many who wanted to work with Alterna but were turned off by finicky babies early on.
My other comments were for what I guess you'd call hardcore Alterna collectors. I thought they'd be downright irritated or worse thinking of people buying their snakes and breeding them outside of their known locale.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

Tom, I have seen little to no difference between generic and local specific in getting them to feed..

Of course you know I can't speak for everyone, but in my opinion as long as breeders are honest about where there hatchlings come from there should not be any issues.

~ Mike Russo

OK, just wondering. If I am not mistaken, locale specific Coastal Plains Milks are one of the snakes that are known to be a bit finicky as hatchlings. However outcrossed ones apparently feed better. All I know is every year I see your babies I considering trying Alterna. After all I live in TX...I think it's some kind of unwritten law I am supposed to have Alterna..
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com
twitter.com/TomsSnakes

Do the deed, dude! You have a few snakes that can be hard to start, just like alterna, then again, some of those turn out to be as easy as the others! There is a little bit of ontogenic change in some of these, but not like what you are used to seeing in the L.g.'s or pits. still, like you said, you are in Texas....

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Todd Hughes

See, Now I am confused?? I thought that they gave all 11 year old boys a pair of Smokin Alterna down in Texas... I guess i heard wrong?

~ Mike Russo

You can have something like this to add to the mix...'07 female River Road...

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Todd Hughes

sorry Mike, really fine clutch, can't wait to see 'em all! just trying to sway another Texan into the arena! Tom, get some!
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Todd Hughes

Mike, very well put. I have been on both sides of the spectrum with my collection over the years. I started with locale specifics actually in 1969. It was not a marketable issue back then to me. I was a kid and it was what I liked to do. I would run the gamut there after adding on boas, pythons and many colubrid morphs for almost 40 years.

I never though completely stoped with specific locales. This entire hobby was never, at least for me, to focus on making a buck. Making money is fine with any hobby but if your goal is to turn it into a profession then you would have to focus on constant change due to market demand and work with herps that command the larger dollars. Myself though never getting to that point as I did not want to focus per say on herps that were only here for the buck. Actually, thats what made me get out of it all 4-5 years ago. I did not like dealing with the morphs and such. I am currently though adding some specific locale herps. At least some of the ones I can still validate. Some are very inexpensive, some not. My goal now is to get back to my roots and focus on what started me off in this hobby many years ago.

On another note. I do know what eggs on many locale guys in general. Many years ago, there were some people who questioned the longterm benefit of the sheer focus of so called man made herps. There are many ways to look at it but I recall statements made by some that were worried about the crossing of sub-species. There point was eventually, as new people get into this hobby as it grows, they will no longer know the difference between a natural occuring sub-species from some intergrades. They would not know what to look for and would go by what others say. This then would lead to a progression of new herpers to continue to market such intergrades as a pure sub-species. I guess you get the picture. As times goes on mixing all these lines into existing morps thus thinking they are producing new morphs of a particular sub-species instead of what they really are. It unfortunately is inadavertently happening right now as well as deliberately. Thus this would eventually make finding some sub-species very difficult in their pure form.

Can go on and on with these old debates and I'm sure you can follow at least some of thier aged logic here. So much more to add on this but to me much of it no longer matters. If you do not record history it will repeat itself. Don't know who first said this but seems a bit accurate these days.

Progression is going to take place in this hobby on two levels. We live in a capitalist society. It is what makes this country great. To focus as a professional breeder developing new and different things will be a necessity to keep this hobby growing. Many people like change, or new things and money. Alot of enjoyment as well for many herp lovers who focus in providing such change in availability of new looks and such. Gets new people involved as well as keeps many other herpers excited about future possiblities.

What we also have going on now though is the emergence of another wave of younger people that were not acustomed to seeing many herps in the wild in their pure form. They are wanting to learn more of what started this hobby of ours. They are focused on locales as for many for pure enjoyment or as preservationist. These are yeat still marketable and have thier niche as well but most likely not for the masses. These days though I would not term locale specific type keepers as lumped into a group as nuts. It is very hard these days to key out sub-species in general these days of many herps that are being bred in captivity. It's even harder to trace back many herps as well to specific locales. Takes alot of research and of asking questions.
This though does tend to annoy many and yes, some take it to an extreme.

Without both types in this hobby I would think it would be quite boring as a whole. There is room for both types as both will benefit the continuing growth of this hobby. I don't think it would have grown so large and mainstream if we only had one type of either.

I thought I could have put this in a much shorter response when I first started. Sorry if this is long winded

I couldn't have summed it up any better than that! I share MANY of those very same views too, as I have enjoyed many types of snakes since 1967 or so. And read a hell of a lot about them even as a kid.

Some of the best memories are from long ago, like me bringing big Indigo's and brooksi to my third grade "show & tell".

Many people nowadays cannot begin to appreciate some of these animals in plain form just as they were many years ago.

It doesn't always have to be about flashy colors and patterns to be very desirable.

take care, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Now those must be awesome memories. My search for Indigos and Brooksi did not occur until the 90's. Much less development when you were seeing them but Indigos were somewhat a common sight. Kingsnakes on the other hand have been not as common. In the early 70's I did see quite a few Kings that were popping up in NYC shops and collections. The ones termed "Brooksi" were outstanding along with Everglades ratsnakes. Many of the Everglades where almost blood red in coloration and very stocky. The Brooksi were in pretty much two forms. A pale white speckling or a bright yellow speckling. Pretty much patternless.

Now, I do remember most of all some Kings that were collected in GA. Only saw two groups that were collected that I know of back then. The collector even to this day will not tell anyone where these were specifically collected. BTW, he was a commercial collecter in his heyday. These Kings were massive. Huge heads, very elongated and wide. Very long. I recall one guy about 6' holding an average sized individual from one group with his arm up over his head and this snake's tail tipped the floor. There was a major acclimation problem though with these Kings. They would not feed for nothing. That is until someone came up with the idea to toss one a recent road kill black ratsnake. No hesitation there. Turns out these Kings were very selective. They would only eat snakes. Much scenting went on but I do not recall any of these Kings lasting very long in captivity.

In the 90's when I first arrived in Florida I did happen to come across 3 of these someone pulled of of sacks in a local reptile shop. They asked me ever I had seen any Kings such as these before. I told them yes and asked where the heck did they get them. All they said was some older individual came in with the sack and said he collected these from the wild. Gave no more info. I wanted to snatch these Kings up immediately but they were already spoken for. In the end, these 3 did not do well at all. I do not know who the actually person was that ended up with them but rumor has it they never made it though their first captive year.

To this day I have yet to hear publicly of these snakes. Nothing about them in any old books or journals that I have come across. These I would term though the King of Kings. To give you an idea of their head size. I would compare them to the head size of a common boa constrictor, a little wider yet flatter. Dimensional I would consider these GIANTS. They were differnt. A mature Indigo would probably not have an easy time with one. Actually, Drymarchon could possibly been on this Kings menu. Probably though more toward an area with a heavy population of rattlers. Could have been their common fare.

Rich Hebron

That is all very interesting stuff, Rich! I really enjoy reading all these stories of years past, and can relate to every single word of it.

Thanks for the cool posts!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

it is perfect!
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Todd Hughes

VERY GOOD, make s sense to me.
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

Man, those are sweet!

Tim

HOLY COW! Those are sweet Mike, nice work buddy
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POSITIVE THOUGHTS, POSITIVE RESULTS

Thanks Adam!

~ Mike Russo

SUPER NICE!!! Mike, I'm hoping I can produce a few like that in the next couple of years. Great stuff. You have any anerys available or know anyone that does? Keep posting!

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Mike those are incredible. Can't wait to see the post shed pics.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson