Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For anyone who can dime in and help....

The preliminary results were lower intestinal parasites. No inclusion bodies identified. Results from the brain testing still pending.

I had this animal for 2 years and tip top healthy from a reliable breeder. I did pair her with a male that passed 2 months before. 2 months later she displayed symptoms.

Question; what types of parasites are there that can pass to another snake in a short period of time? Also, is it common for parasitic infestation to cause neurological problems?

Of course, I will be doing my own research and discussing with the vet as well.

Thanks,
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped)
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

The findings: Bacterial Septicemia with acute supportive encephalitis. Blood poisoning. The neurological problem derived from puss on the brain from the infection caused by the bacteria. Isolated Pseudomonas and Salmonella from the heart samples.

NO Inclusions found in the lung, kidney, liver or brain.

Anyone want to chime in on how she may have gotten this and if this contagious? I think I know but would love to hear other's opinions.

Thanks,

Kenny
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped)
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

I'm in WAY over my head with this stuff, but I did want to commend you for getting a necropsy performed. Many won't do it as they feel it's too expensive. IMO, it's more expensive to lose animals out of your collection.

Sorry it happened, but glad you have some answers...

jb
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Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Pseudomonas is common in even healthy snakes, but when they become compromised they multiply to unhealthy and sometimes lethal levels.

Salmonella is common in healthy Turtles and can be transferred both to humans and other animals from one form of contamination or another.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

The snake died from Septicemia. Could have been from a compromised Immune system. Where was the initial post on symptoms and death details? How far back is that?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

John, the snake was euthanized after a prolonged neurological disorder (head corkscrew). I lost 4 other snakes in a row and 2 months before. 3 boas and 1 GTPs. All with the exception of one were healthy and eating. One baby boa seemed to have an impact (large lump in tail section) and died within days of passing a normal stool. One adult boa was treated for RI with injections and took 3 months to finally pass. She was being force feed but would regurge and had runny stools. The last boa stopped eating, became sluggish and had the same runny stool. She died within 2 weeks. The other GTP stopped eating all of a sudden, did not corkscrew but ventured everywhere except his perch. He lasted 2 months in an incubator to maintain a constant 88 degrees and 60% humidity.

All were fed items form the same food source. The was a 36 hour power shortage and they did experience temps in the low 60's a few months before. All experienced some drop in temps but nothing below 75 degrees.

All animals listed below are eating and behaving well. I am doing stool samples on the breeders this year and then on any questionable loose stools.

Have you any input?

Thanks,

Kenny
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2.2 Chondro (Aru / Sorong (Gravid) / Biak / Mix)
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.1 Retic (Calico x Dwarf / Calico)
3.4 BCC/BCI (Peruvian / Albino / Guyana / Albino Het Snow / Anery Het Snow)
2.2 Crested Gecko
2.2 Western Hognose
1.1 Western Coachwhip
1.2 Black Racer
2.2 Ball Python (Spider / Pastel / 1.1 Het Pied)
1.3 Homo Sapiens
1.0 Pit Bull
0.1 Bull Terrier

This computer defaults to the old handle. Same person.
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped) named "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

No. I really don't. Sounds like the typical immunosuppressive viral thing. What was new to the collection? Probably not a neonate from the breeder. You have to go back and time line all events to correlate as best you can. You must consider source collections.
The temp drop could have triggered the outbreak. Something latent possibly. Temp drop alone does suppress immune capabilities.
My guess would be somewhere between a week and 2 weeks from infection to noticeable symptoms.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Here is the original post...I failed to remind about the initial parasitic findings.

"For anyone who can dime in and help....

The preliminary results were lower intestinal parasites. No inclusion bodies identified. Results from the brain testing still pending.

I had this animal for 2 years and tip top healthy from a reliable breeder. I did pair her with a male that passed 2 months before. 2 months later she displayed symptoms.

Question; what types of parasites are there that can pass to another snake in a short period of time? Also, is it common for parasitic infestation to cause neurological problems?

Of course, I will be doing my own research and discussing with the vet as well. "

I received a questionable female breeder boa that can in light, that stopped eating and had the watery, waxy stool as well as a juv healthy boa...they both passed.
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped) named "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

It is tempting to place a newly acquired adult female in with a male, without going through a good quarantine regime first. I have done it and paid. Or, I should say my snakes paid. I still have unresolved issues with some adults that were in contact with that female or were in contact with snakes that were in contact with it.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I'm in the same boat and I will not be comfortable until I have them all tested. Even then, I'll never feel relaxed.
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped) named "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

This sounds rather familiar to me. The problem I had last summer
almost exactly a year ago last week (end of Aug'08).
Septic infection ,unhealthy high levels of Pseudomonas , Proteus and klebsiella.
I don't run around giving injections of Antibiotics willy nilly
to my Boas when something pops up.
Although had I given Amakacin at first sign that something wasn't right
There was a good chance I would not have lost many of those Boas I lost.
20/20 hindsight is worthless and to second guess myself is worthless !

I still believe the food source and specifically toxic
levels of some type of fat were involved.

We , my vet and I did complete stool samples and testing on my
entire collection to try in determine who possibly needed
Antibiotic treatment that didn't show any real symptoms.

I did treat several boas with Amakacin and they recovered

The Boas I had that passed all left a G.I. mucous discharge (throw up of mucous)
and within mostly 24 - 36 hours of the G.I.mucous discharge died.

. . . Lar M

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

The mucus regurge happened to only one and then the injections started. 2 weeks after the injections were done did she pass. I have 2 stools im taking in tomorrow. One highly questionable based on texture and smell. I've already accepted the loss. I hope the fecal tests are accurate and thorough.
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped) named "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

The craps in the mail and I should have results from the vet by Mon should anyone be curious of the outcome.
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped) named "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain

Results back already...simple float test...No parasite eggs but does not mean there are no parasites. Not viral testing done on the west coast due to economics and the Univ of FL is my only option for testing. What a waste of $80 lol. Im going to have to play doctor, play it safe and take the advice of everyone. Hate being reactive but there seems to be no logical proactive measure that wont wipe out my credit card limit.

Thanks guys...faith takes the wheel!
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4.4 BCI
1.3 BCC
2.1 Eastern Indigo
1.3 Western Hognose (Het Albino)
2.2 Ball Python (Het Pied/Spider/Pastel)
1.1 Chondro (Mixer/Sorong)
1.1 Retic (Possible Het Calico)
1.3.6 Crested Gecko
0.1 California Kingsnake (Striped) named "Skid Mark"
0.0.1 Florida Softshell Turtle
0.0.1 African Long Neck Turtle
1.0 Pitbull
0.1 Bull Terrier
1.2 Kids
0.1 Ball and Chain