Reptile & Amphibian Forums

at what size is it ok to feed a pac man pinkies. i am going to take pics of my frog so you guys can help me out. i'll put him next to a quarter so you can compare his size. also i need to know how to post pics on here. so if you can answer my question about the pinkies and about the pics i'd a ppreciate it.

thanks steve

Don't bother with the pic. There is no size as frogs should not eat mice unless you want them to become unhealthy. There are plenty of perfectly good invertebrates out there. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

many people on this forum will tell you never feed mice and goldfish. some will say its ok. i personally feed my pacman one a pinky a month, and gold fish and crickets i switch his diet around so he doesn't get bored. my pacman is about the size a a 50 cent piece, and he eats pinkies just fine. if you get one make sure you dust it with calcium.
-Robert

Those some people who say it's fine to feed frogs mice are also the ones who haven't had frog feeding on mice for very long. There is proof that mice are bad for frogs, there's not much proof on goldfish being bad for them, but I have even stopped feeding my frogs as much goldfish as I have been. I have been keeping horned frogs for 6 years now, so I know crickets dusted works just fine, as well as fish on occasion.
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http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

great, nice to know, i still say its ok to feed your frog once or twice a month.
ROBERT

Have you not read bartletts literature? There have been studies where it has been proven that mice WILL cause liver failure, blindness, and possibly premature death. But hey, go for it. Not my frog so no skin off my back. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

yep, not your frog so don't worry about it

I think anything in moderation is okay. I dont feed mine strictly mice but I do feed him like one to two hoppers a month. Look at the studies with humans, I mean there have been studies saying that eggs were bad for you or salt was bad for you and then there have been studies saying that these in moderation are actually good for you. I would imagine a strict diet of mice would give you problems in the long run, that would be like us eating nothing but bacon for the rest of our lives, but supplementing your frogs diet with an occasional mouse would be okay.

thank you that was what i was trying to say and i am glad someone agrees with me. i don't feed my "6" ARGENTINA horned frogs mice every week, only once a month or so. i am just tired of reading that mice are bad and etc etc etc. they are not bad in moderation. well anyhow thanx for helping me make my point
ROBERT

That isn't even a valid analogy. These frogs in the wild would RARELY if ever even see mice. Invertebrates and other frogs would constitute 99% of their diet. But if you want to feed it mice, then go for it. I fed one of my frogs mice earlier on (as a supplement, not as a staple) and he still is grossly obese (which has not changed even through dieting). My frogs that have not been fed mice are, on the whole, much healthier and leaner. Basically, there is no purpose for mice. Varying the diets with just invetebrates is sufficient, so why use mice when you know they can be detrimental? Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

I would have to agree that full grown mice are a little much for them, but I do infact feed my adult female a pinky once a month or so. The full grown mice seemed to make my frog a bit lazy and fat,so I have quit feeding them adult mice.

Actually if you were to feed mice I would feed older mice, if you opt to do it anyway. Pinkies are about the least nutrituous food out there. They have no calcium and are like pure fat. When people want to beef up their herps for breeding, they give them pinkies for a reason. Of course, mice ARE unecessary. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

I find way too many ironic inconsistencies with your argument. You state that you have read information on how mice are bad, but you do not offer any supporting literature for your stance on feeding mice at all. Your once or twice a month timeframe is completely subjective, what exactly is this based on other than your own intuition? Is your intuition able to give you x-ray vision to see when your frogs bones are getting weak and fracturing on the long bones?

"i am just tired of reading that mice are bad and etc etc etc." this statement tells me you are just being hard headed and not adequately researching the subject. Apparently you're not willing to give up using mice, probably because of convenience. There are many invertebrate food items available, and hissing cockroaches are ideal, how can you justify using mice that are known to be so detrimental?

Although it is entirely possible to use mice with adequate supplementation and diet variation, the average frog keeper is not capable of doing detailed nutritional analysis to do this properly. Making your claim on a public forum like this with beginners that are not able to weigh the options completely is reckless. I strongly urge you to check out the Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry book by Dr. Kevin Wright for convincing evidence not to use mice, ever.
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...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes

I am not posting to scold you but please....

There is certainly no reason for such an immature responce. Everyone here is simply trying to provide information on the proper husbandry of our herps. No one is MAKING you change the way you are feeding, they are only trying to make all information known so that no one can be mistaken and end up with an unhealthy animal.

If you can not handle the variety of options and advice then simply do not read it. And do not revert to grade school behavior.

There is scientific proof that feeding mice to frogs can be harmful if not fatal. If you can not open your eyes and see that others have had problems due to this, then by all means feed your frog and enjoy it for the few years that you may get out of it. Don't push your advice when there are more "proper" ways to provide. There are people who visit this board who are new to the hobby and don't know all the facts. Someone may read your post about feedings and end up killing their frog in te long run because of fatty build up, obesity or even metabolic bone disease.
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Heather