Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Friends, countrymen, herpers, novice (or professional) carpenters... lend me your ears.

Howdy,

I have fiddled with building cages since I got into snakes, 'bout 5 years now. I've built a few racks, an iggy cage, this and that. Well about a year ago I managed to land a job at a local cabinet shop (I am a poor college student), and my main driving force was to "learn the trade" (then I would silently whisper, "so I can build kickbutt snake cages" after). All that said, I am working on my first prototype of a small vert cage (18" tall by 12" wide by 10" deep). The shell and doors are 3/4" pine (cabinet grade). There will be an 1.5" substrate dam on the bottom, which the door will come flush with. All edges are lap jointed and glued. Heating will be done by 3" flexwatt and a helix, and possibly some sort of overhead lighting (I'm going to wait and test out the temps once it's all together). Now that I have attempted to give all the details, I'll ask my questions:

1.) I plan on using the standard finishing procedure on the exterior as we do in the shop. This consists of stain, a water based glaze for tinting, seal coat, and a few coats of lacquer (precatalyzed, the brand is MagnaMax). I don't have the names of any of these other products, but, I know that it off gases in only a few days (at least to the standard of my pregnant wifes nose). I don't see this being a serious issue, since it's on the outside, but I figured it was worth asking.

2.) My plan for the inside is to go the water based polyurea route, tough, waterproof(ish?), and contrasting color to the outside. Something intended for flooring possibly? I'd like to be able to get it from a local hardware store. And then on the bottom, route a location for the flexwatt and wiring, and cover with contact paper, or something... My idea is to conceal the flexwatt and really make sure that moisture won't be an issure. Silicone the edges (all of them), and call it a done deal. Does this plan sound good? Sound, sound?

3.) Lastly, a plexi question... I know, dime a dozen, sorry... The local hardware store sells various sizes of Lexan, Acrylic, and Glass. I'd prefer the first two, since I can cut them myself, but I am open to suggestions. Also, the only thickness offered is .093". It would be holding a neonate scrub, green tree, etc, doesn't really matter, and would only be about 12" by 16". The thickness seems fine to me, I'm just not sure which of the two stands up to the test of time. Scratch resistant, won't get foggy, etc. Any input would be appreciated.

Okay, I know this is a lot of questions, all at once. I tried to be as detailed as possible. I've lurked in this forum for years, and I know the usual questions that come when something is asked, haha. I appreciate any advice or suggestions. I'll do my best to get some pictures for yall too! Thanks,

~Johnny

How lucky, can't go wrong with cabinet-grade material and professional tools. You may want to go 12 inches deep on the cage rather than 10 inches.

You may want to use a ceramic heat emitter - cut an 8 1/2 inch hole on the cage top, cover with screen, and place an 8 1/2 inch dome on top. For a green tree python, this type of heating is more effective than floor heat for obvious reasons.

If you want to use floor heat, I recommend cutting a rectangle out of the floor. Then cover the entire floor with something - the easiest material to work with is closed cell PVC (aka "Sintra" which you can get online or from sign shops. You can use 1/4 inch thick material and use caulk to seal around it. Now you can stick a heat pad under the cage under the plastic floor. Much easier to heat this way.
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Mark

If you follow the plastic floor advice above, here is what you can do:

1. Cut out the rectangle on the floor such that your heat pad can fit. There are heat pads that are 6x8 inches. That will be a good size

2. Cut the plastic piece to fit over the cage inside bottom. It can fit loosely, no problem.

3. Now paint the inside of the cage with the polyurea product if that is your choice. Polyurea may take a few weeks to fully cure, but when it does, it will have no odor at all and be like a thin layer of plastic over the wood. Doesn't look really nice, kind of like tar, but oh boy is it the most durable finish you can get. Kind of like tar, lol.

4. Place the plastic floor down (I used liquid nails for small projects) and caulk it in. Or use epoxy putty to fill the gap if you want the seal to withstand constant scrubbing for the life of the cage.
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Mark

I am working on my first prototype of a small vert cage (18" tall by 12" wide by 10" deep). The shell and doors are 3/4" pine (cabinet grade).

Cabinet grade pine plywood or solid wood?

If you use solid wood, especially pine, my concern is that you'll get warping due to temperature and humidity differentials inside and outside the enclosure. This will only be more likely and significant if you use two different finishes inside and outside the cage, like your catalyzed lacquer and a polyurea.

1.) I plan on using the standard finishing procedure on the exterior as we do in the shop. This consists of stain, a water based glaze for tinting, seal coat, and a few coats of lacquer (precatalyzed, the brand is MagnaMax). I don't have the names of any of these other products, but, I know that it off gases in only a few days (at least to the standard of my pregnant wifes nose). I don't see this being a serious issue, since it's on the outside, but I figured it was worth asking.

Not sure if I understand the question but I would not worry about any of these on the cage exterior. For sure I would not use the catalyzed lacquer on the interior, but that's already not in your plans.

2.) My plan for the inside is to go the water based polyurea route, tough, waterproof(ish?), and contrasting color to the outside. Something intended for flooring possibly? I'd like to be able to get it from a local hardware store. And then on the bottom, route a location for the flexwatt and wiring, and cover with contact paper, or something... My idea is to conceal the flexwatt and really make sure that moisture won't be an issure. Silicone the edges (all of them), and call it a done deal. Does this plan sound good? Sound, sound?

If you use polyurea you probably won't be able to get anything to stick to the floor, so any of your flooring options would be pretty much ruled out. If you want to use polyurea then I would use only that and find another way to accomplish your heating goals without cutting our routing into the floor.

3.) Lastly, a plexi question... I know, dime a dozen, sorry... The local hardware store sells various sizes of Lexan, Acrylic, and Glass. I'd prefer the first two, since I can cut them myself, but I am open to suggestions. Also, the only thickness offered is .093". It would be holding a neonate scrub, green tree, etc, doesn't really matter, and would only be about 12" by 16". The thickness seems fine to me, I'm just not sure which of the two stands up to the test of time. Scratch resistant, won't get foggy, etc. Any input would be appreciated.

Again, not sure I understand what the question is but I assume you're asking about doors? I would use glass.

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Currently keeping:

3.5.5 Gonyosoma oxycephalum (Javan, mixed colors)
0.0.3 Rhynchophis boulengeri
0.2 Lampropeltis triangulum multistriata
0.2 Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae
0.0.3 Rhamphiophis rubropunctatus
1.1.1 Morelia viridis (Aru & Merauke locale types)
1.0 Morelia clastolepis
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback

I am working on my first prototype of a small vert cage (18" tall by 12" wide by 10" deep). The shell and doors are 3/4" pine (cabinet grade).

If you use solid wood, especially pine, my concern is that you'll get warping due to temperature and humidity differentials inside and outside the enclosure. This will only be more likely and significant if you use two different finishes inside and outside the cage, like your catalyzed lacquer and a polyurea.

First, thanks for the response! I'm going with solid pine. I guess one thing that I should state is that I am making this "prototype" as the first test run for cages that I'd like to sell here locally. That said, I have reconsidered a few things. Like the wood choice. I am using pine, and will probably still for this cage (mostly since it's already glued up). But my next one will be probably plywood framed, and solid wood on the face (like most cabinets are done).

1.) I plan on using the standard finishing procedure on the exterior as we do in the shop. This consists of stain, a water based glaze for tinting, seal coat, and a few coats of lacquer (precatalyzed, the brand is MagnaMax). I don't have the names of any of these other products, but, I know that it off gases in only a few days (at least to the standard of my pregnant wifes nose). I don't see this being a serious issue, since it's on the outside, but I figured it was worth asking.

Not sure if I understand the question but I would not worry about any of these on the cage exterior. For sure I would not use the catalyzed lacquer on the interior, but that's already not in your plans.

Right, no lacquer on the interior. You answered the question perfectly, confirming what I was thinking as well.

2.) My plan for the inside is to go the water based polyurea route, tough, waterproof(ish?), and contrasting color to the outside. Something intended for flooring possibly? I'd like to be able to get it from a local hardware store. And then on the bottom, route a location for the flexwatt and wiring, and cover with contact paper, or something... My idea is to conceal the flexwatt and really make sure that moisture won't be an issure. Silicone the edges (all of them), and call it a done deal. Does this plan sound good? Sound, sound?

If you use polyurea you probably won't be able to get anything to stick to the floor, so any of your flooring options would be pretty much ruled out. If you want to use polyurea then I would use only that and find another way to accomplish your heating goals without cutting our routing into the floor.

I hadn't thought about this, very good point. Any recommendations for a good poly?

3.) Lastly, a plexi question... I know, dime a dozen, sorry... The local hardware store sells various sizes of Lexan, Acrylic, and Glass. I'd prefer the first two, since I can cut them myself, but I am open to suggestions. Also, the only thickness offered is .093". It would be holding a neonate scrub, green tree, etc, doesn't really matter, and would only be about 12" by 16". The thickness seems fine to me, I'm just not sure which of the two stands up to the test of time. Scratch resistant, won't get foggy, etc. Any input would be appreciated.

Again, not sure I understand what the question is but I assume you're asking about doors? I would use glass.

Glass it is.

I guess it's worth mentioning that I believe I am going to move away from heat tape. Mark, your advice was considered here, coupled with the idea of selling a cage with heat tape. My biggest concern with heat tape, especially sealed under something such as Formica, is that someone wouldn't be able to check on it. I trust my wiring, and I know how to check for symptoms of malfunctioning heat tape, but I wouldn't trust the GP to do that. I am now leaning towards an after market heating system, ie, RHP or CHE system. Essentially, this leaves the heating elements in the hands of the end user... In doing this, I can simply use polyurea on the interior, which I like better. Less steps really.

Stand by for more updates... Again, thanks for the insight.

~John

Any recommendations for a good poly?

I assume you mean polyurea? I would get something that comes in small kits and the only one I know of is Reptishield.

To clarify a bit more what I mean about the floor, I just don't see the need to cover the polyurea with something that will be more difficult to clean than the polyurea. If you're putting it on the cage walls then I would put it on the floor as well.
-----
Currently keeping:

3.5.5 Gonyosoma oxycephalum (Javan, mixed colors)
0.0.3 Rhynchophis boulengeri
0.2 Lampropeltis triangulum multistriata
0.2 Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae
0.0.3 Rhamphiophis rubropunctatus
1.1.1 Morelia viridis (Aru & Merauke locale types)
1.0 Morelia clastolepis
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback