Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Cluadius
"VPI = zero muddy brown and do not look 'normal' at adulthood.
My opinion is the VPI morph is the Cadillac of the so called t-pos options.

Ceniceros
"VPI T Pos. No comparison, cmon look at the adults."

VFR
"In my opinion VPI would be the only way to go on the T positives. Sure you have Paradigms with the B&W but I could only imagine that the equivalent of the VPI will blow the paradigm out of the water, I see it pretty hard to sell Russians and B&W since they really do look close enough to normals"

Boacraze
"i agree with claudias with the vpi strain being the cadillac of the t-positive options.. i know im sure glad i went with the vpi strain!!"

I think all of you need to open your mind and realize that the VPI line has WIDELY varying degrees of color and have been manipulated and refined the most!! I'll agree with you that the VPI line is wonderful and unique but did they look like that right off the bat? No buddy, they looked Bone white washed, with dark brown and even Black!! My opinion isn't a unbiased one because Ive invested in ALL except for the Russian's, and I have seen all types in person!!

How long have Paradigms been around..... 5 years. Thats it! Trust me contrary to wherever you got your info that Paradigms don't look amazing as adults your wrong. I have SEEN Paradigms that compete with Pink Panthers. Dont believe me? Go to basicallyboas.com and look.

Caramels.... How many have you seen? How many have been produced? Caramels are sick bro and without any refining have they most varied and amazing colors. Given the time and through selective breeding they'll be on par with the best from ANY strain.

Russian's... If you would LOOK at the pics out there and the one just posted, you would see some really beautiful animals. I don't think they look there best until there adults, but they still turn out exceptional. From the picture that Zenzina posted i could see no "Brown"

I'd be really careful when you say one is the "Cadillac", or its "No comparison." It sounds ignorant and your not seeing the bigger picture. Also try not to knock something simply because you might have bought something else!!

Isn't the caddy a GM product ? I would compare a different car to get your point across. I see a lot of bias based on individual owmership. It is a silly arguement. Sounds like a bunch of school girls fighting. Since they are both completely different , why would we compare the two to each other anyhow ?

I didn't say anything about a caddy...? And you're right about the "Bias based on owner ship."
That was the point of my reply. I was simply trying to state the positives of each line since each is drastically different..

U ARE RIGHT EVERYBODY HAS AN OPINION!! VPI IS THE BRIGHTEST OF THE T POSITIVE'S AS ADULT'S. NONE OF THE OTHER'S HAVE THE PINK'S THAT THESE VPI'S HAVE. I HAVE BEEN TO "BASSICALLY BOA'S" WEB SITE AND DO NOT SEE ANYTHING AS NICE AS A VPI. SO ON THAT NOTE IT IS JUST MY OPINION!!!
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All about the U!!!!

Let me help you bud..
Paradigm..

VPI T-Positive.,

Paradigm


VPI

This is just a silly comparison. Are you seriously comparing a paradigm to a VPI T positive? The comparison should be between a VPI T positive and a BW caramel. If you want to compare a paradygm to a VPI then you need to wait until the Pink Panther/Sharp visual is produced which in my opinion will blow the paradigm out of the water.

I definitely agree withthis though
"Bias based on owner ship."

I have a problem comparing a paradigm to a VPI crossed into the Sharp line
I believe its a completely different apple

A Homozygous Sharp , Homozygous VPI Caramel is just another form of a Dbl recessive mutation Boa Like a Snow Boa is a DBL recessive mutation it can't be compared to a Paradigm.

The Paradigm is just a completely different set of genetic anomalies resulting in a refined or
maybe mid level visual dbl het form of Tyrosinase Pos Boa.

The only way the 2 could ever have been compared would be if the VPI caramel had been compatible with the Sharp gene creating another form of Paradigm
its not compatible, no comparison can be made.

That's just how I feel about this particular offshoot subject.

. . . Lar m
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

"I think all of you need to open your mind and realize that the VPI line has WIDELY varying degrees of color and have been manipulated and refined the most!! I'll agree with you that the VPI line is wonderful and unique but did they look like that right off the bat?"

The remainder of your emotive verbiage aside, none of these genes themselves become "refined". The background of the picture, iow animal that carry the it, can become refined but not the gene. You and a couple other posters here mistakenly credit selective breeding as somehow being able to exert a direct effect on the gene; thus your and their arguments are fatally flawed.

I stand by my earlier statements.

I AGREE WITH U!!! CLAUDIUS... 0 WHEN YOU ARE ON TOP THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE COMING AFTER YOU. OR IN THIS CASE MORPH'S!!
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All about the U!!!!

Cluadius.... What are you talking about? Scroll down and look at "Shots" post and pictures then try to prove me wrong!!! So let me get this right you really think Pink Panthers just popped out from no where?

>>"I think all of you need to open your mind and realize that the VPI line has WIDELY varying degrees of color and have been manipulated and refined the most!! I'll agree with you that the VPI line is wonderful and unique but did they look like that right off the bat?"
>>
>>The remainder of your emotive verbiage aside, none of these genes themselves become "refined". The background of the picture, iow animal that carry the it, can become refined but not the gene. You and a couple other posters here mistakenly credit selective breeding as somehow being able to exert a direct effect on the gene; thus your and their arguments are fatally flawed.
>>
>>I stand by my earlier statements.

You stand your earlier statement that VPI cannot muddy brown, even after seeing some pics with allmost black showing you that you are wrong !? It's not a statement you are giving, it's a dogma !

I too stand by my statements. Like I said earlier, I honestly believe that when the equivalent of the paradigm gets produced with the VPI line, it will look MUCH better than the paradigm. I also believe that since the paradigm is much easier to produce it will drop much more rapidly in cost compared to other T positive morphs.

>>I too stand by my statements. Like I said earlier, I honestly believe that when the equivalent of the paradigm gets produced with the VPI line, it will look MUCH better than the paradigm. I also believe that since the paradigm is much easier to produce it will drop much more rapidly in cost compared to other T positive morphs.

Since VPI and sharp are not 'compatible' (visible dbl het) even thought they are T positive' it mean that the linked genes that cause the 2 phenotypes are not all located on the same locy.
So, there are no garanties to get an équivalent of the paradigm/blondes with the VPI's. Both mutations could also not 'melt' in an incomplete dominant way ( like carmel/blonde do with visible dbl) and could both work in a dominant way on each other.
So the double homozygotes sharp/VPi could also just have a sharp or a VPI phenotype !

I have a problem comparing a paradigm to a VPI crossed into the Sharp line
I believe its a completely different apple
As Zenzinia is saying

A Homozygous Sharp , Homozygous VPI Caramel is just another form of a Dbl recessive mutation Boa Like a Snow Boa is a DBL recessive mutation it can't be compared to a Paradigm.

The Paradigm is just a completely different set of genetic anomalies resulting in a refined or
maybe mid level visual dbl het form of Tyrosinase Pos Boa.

The only way the 2 could ever have been compared would be if the VPI caramel had been compatible with the Sharp gene creating another form of Paradigm
its not compatible, no comparison can be made.

That's just how I feel about this particular offshoot subject.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Just my opinion. Sorry for any hard feelings.
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Richard Ceniceros

No problem bro, just trying to help people see what every line has to offer.

been worked with more so far (VPI).
The BW Caramels are going to be sick in a few years!
Paradigms are already off the hook!

I wished I could say on the Russian Line but I don't have any of those.
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Ty Hege
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

I agree you...I love the BW Caramel Line animals plus the combos you could make is just awesome! Now I wonder if I should breed to produce Paradigms or if I should breed to Produce BW Caramels what would you do?!

I have a female Sharp and 1.1 het BW Caramels...I am also getting a buddys Sharp Albino male...so I am undecided...What would you do?
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Brandon Nixon

I would make some Caramels first!! but definitely take your shot at producing some of your own paradigms!!!

Thats my thought too however I would love to have a Paradigm...but I am sure more of those will be produced this year than Caramels...so that is the cross roads I am currently at...
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Brandon Nixon

Caramels genetically still have so much to offer!! And yes there aren't as many out there, but if you really like a couple of your own paradigms then make yours so you can enjoy them.

My first love is the VPI Caramel. They've been at the top of my
list since early '03 maybe late '02. So That's the project I'm
involved in. I really really like BW Caramels and have since
probably late '03 when I realized something special was going
there,but couldn't get my hands on one ,LOL

Brandon if I were in your shoes I'd make B.W.Caramels first ,
then make your Paradigm.

That's how I would do it

My VPI from '04

. . . Lar M

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Do you still have that VPI whats the sex?
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Brandon Nixon

That's the '04 male I lost.
I have a couple others now though

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

That tail on that picture just looks like it glows in the dark!

He by far was the best I could've gotten my hands.
It hurts bad loosing him !

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

>>I think all of you need to open your mind and realize that the VPI line has WIDELY varying degrees of color and have been manipulated and refined the most!! I'll agree with you that the VPI line is wonderful and unique but did they look like that right off the bat? No buddy, they looked Bone white washed, with dark brown and even Black!! My opinion isn't a unbiased one because Ive invested in ALL except for the Russian's, and I have seen all types in person!!
>>
>>How long have Paradigms been around..... 5 years. Thats it! Trust me contrary to wherever you got your info that Paradigms don't look amazing as adults your wrong. I have SEEN Paradigms that compete with Pink Panthers. Dont believe me? Go to basicallyboas.com and look.
>>
>>Caramels.... How many have you seen? How many have been produced? Caramels are sick bro and without any refining have they most varied and amazing colors. Given the time and through selective breeding they'll be on par with the best from ANY strain.
>>
>>Russian's... If you would LOOK at the pics out there and the one just posted, you would see some really beautiful animals. I don't think they look there best until there adults, but they still turn out exceptional. From the picture that Zenzina posted i could see no "Brown"
>>
>>I'd be really careful when you say one is the "Cadillac", or its "No comparison." It sounds ignorant and your not seeing the bigger picture. Also try not to knock something simply because you might have bought something else!!

I agree and would like to add.
What makes a T positive ? just a lack of tyrosinase that doesn't allow the double oxydation needed to produce black pigment. It doesn't work like hypo boas that reduce areas where black is present, it mainly modify the colors of the area where there is black pigment. That's why inside all the different 'colombians' bloodlines there are big differences, like in any classic boa litters. Less black, more collorfull and lighter the bloodline used is, better the T positive will be, no mysteries!!

I love all the different lines in addition to VPI Caramels of "T - Pos Boa lines"
the Russian /T Bondes/Zig Zag Line, Paradigms, B.W.Caramel,Prodigy Boas,
plus a few others that have surfaced

They are all beautiful Boas !!

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

ill drop a quick one.

If boas were compared to cars I would definitely want to drive a bentley[vpi pink panther].

You can keep the keys to your saturn.

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Spencer