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Okay, so here's the story. I purchased an adult 2006 female pinstripe from a friend that had originaly come from BHB(home of the lesser Crystal). I bred my male crystal Mojave to her and she gave me 3 good eggs. Needless to say i was disappointed. Shes a monster for an 2006 and i had hoped for a large clutch. I had been hoping to hit a Pinstripe special male to work into the Crystal Jigsaw project. First egg hatches, and 2 male Pinstripe specials are in the egg. I am stoked and i figure i will just cut the next egg. I cut and see a white snake? That shouldnt be possible, and it looks like a supercrystal? All i can figure is she is a pinstripe special female.
So the male supercrystal pinstripe started off being white with very weird splotches of orange pinstripe spots. Now he is starting to develop some orange tint color to all the White. I wil get an updated shed picture soon. But for now this is a photo of his baby picts. Im not totally sure what is going on since i didnt produce this female pinstripe.However, having made 2 pinstripe specials, i can tell you they just look like a real nice pinstripe and it would be very easy to overlook them.

This is a photo of the female Pinstripe. Not the best photo but she is very nice in person. However, i dont think you could pick out an PinstripeSpecial in person unless you were really looking for it.

This is a photo of the supercrystal pinstripe still in the egg. The egg beside him has the twin pinstripe specials. That was actually my first time hatching twins. very cool.

Here is a photo of the pinstripe special. He should be a cool addition to the Crystal Jigsaw project. I didnt hit many eggs but it was nice to get lucky.

Ok I am a little confused here Clint. Are you sure you may not have lined up the Mojave side of the Crystal with something like say a Vin Russo Het that also happens to be a Pinstripe. I say that as obviously she isn't a Lesser Pin a Jig Saw or anything like that so who is to say that she may have a more subtle gene in her like Vin Russo/Mocha or something along those lines and you made a BEL with Pin in it as to me that doesn't look alot like a Super Special. The head doesn't look quite right to me for a Super Special and the Pin head should not effect the Super Special that much as a Pin's head isn't that extreme to knock out that much of the look one would not think anyway. I guess another way to look at this is if indeed your right that would mean my snake is likely a Pastel Super Special instead if you go by visual comparisons, one wouldn't think your snake having Pin in it wouldn't matter that much other than pattern wise and that yours would still look like a Super Special overall with Pin pattern affecting the pattern but not changing the shade of white as much as it has. The white on yours also seems different (brighter white) than the Super Specials Baker's made , maybe that's the effect the Pin gene is having on it, OR maybe it's because it's a more classic example of a BEL (Mojave x lesser complex member) without any Special in it ? I guess time will tell what you have , if it in fact proves to be a Super Special you'll make Crystals easily by breeding him back to Mojaves and if he's a type of BEL without Crystal in him you won't make Crystals but instead more BEL's (some with Pin in them too) , that will be the ONLY sure fire way to tell right away..

VERY cool AND RARE problem to have Clint, either way it's a first of it's kind ! GOOD PROBLEMS TO HAVE FOR SURE as it's stuff like this that makes your head hurt if you think to long about it! Please do let us know how this ends up! Knowing how rare the Special gene really is compared to the other members of the BEL complex I think it's a little early to call him a Super Special Pin myself but it's your snake so you call it what you think it should be called . I know from experience that this naming thing can cause quite a stir sometimes so I'd just tread lightly until you know for sure what side combined to make him! In a nutshell we know that the Regular Mojave side from your Crystal Mojave can just as easily line up a BEL via your Pin if she is carrying a subtle form of one of the BEL members. If you really think about it odds of the Mojave side of your Crystal Mojave lining up with a non "Special" BEL member are FAR more likely than lining up Special x Special as we already know there are SEVERAL ways to make classic BEL's in the crosses within the BEL complex and there is only ONE way to make a Super Special (Special x Special).. I know you already said she came from BHB BUT you also know that Brian wasn't sure about the genetics on this project for some time early on , if it was a hidden gene thing , recessive , codom or what it really was , he knew Balls can do crazy stuff so I kinda doubt he would sell off ANYTHING that "may" have anything to do with the Crystal project early on like that as just a regular ol' Pinstripe. However if he bred a PinStripe to a "nice pretty normal" that happend to not be just a "normal" but instead was actually a Russo or a Mocha or one of those subtle lesser complex members I could easily see him selling them babies off as just nice looking Pinstripes and not even put much thought about what else genetically was there because it combined in a subtle enough way as to not really be able to see he'd actually really made a double codom using a PinStripe and that "Pretty female normal" of which we all know he's raised up from a CH baby and hand picked out of the masses not knowing anything about her genetic background other than "just Pretty" ! Basically she hadn't lined up with the right pairing yet to prove her out as a BEL member, but still carried the gene under the radar and passed the gene on quietly to that Pinstripe without anyone noticing either ..

Please step in and correct me if I'm wrong here folks but can you really tell a Pinstripe that is also carrying say Het Russo (Het for White Diamond) or even a Mocha Pinstripe lets say from just a regular Pinstripe? Anyone care to chime in and add to that thought?????

Also Clint did you make a regular Crystal in this clutch? If you did or EVER do with that particular Pin female you will instantly prove that way she indeed is a Pin SPECIAL as the only way she could make a regular Crystal or even a Pin Crystal Mojave for that matter is if she has the Special gene and your pulling just the Mojave side of your Crystal to combine with her Special side. That being said it will be FAR more valuable for you to do this same breeding again and hope for a bigger clutch , if you don't make any sort of regular Crystal in a big clutch odds are very high that she isn't carrying Special and in fact instead carries another member of the lesser complex and it's a subtle one at that. IF you breed this male back to her you won't no matter what ever be able to make a regular Crystal which you really do need to see to prove your theory . Instead either your going to make Super Specials (if your correct on your theory) or you'll make more regular NON Special BEL's like him, and likely even the other Super form of whatever BEL complex you have hiding in there, and based on that head you have on this one I know it isn't phantom in that Pin either but instead one member who's head is white in it's Super form. That being said just taking a regular Super Mojave to this female Pinstripe would prove out if you made a Super Special Pin. You wouldn't even need a big clutch that way to prove it out either! If you hit on Crystals you proved out she's also a Special and if you make more white snakes but no Crystals then she obviously is not a Special at all... That's a surefire way I think to get her figured out quick without wondering much other than maybe which white headed member of the BEL NON Special she is if she can't make Crystals when bred to a Super Mojave !

Something to really think about here isn't there folks!

Anthony McCain
Pic enclosed is of a Super Special -Baker Line

Ok, so that snake is a super special...
and when you combine the special gene with a mojo you get a crystal? Or is a crystal a super special mojo?

I never quite paid attention to the crystal genetics...I just drooled over them.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Special x mojave = Crystal Mojave 1 out of 4 odds per eggs anyway.

Special x lesser - Crystal Lesser same odds as above (1 in 4)

Super Special x mojave - Crystal Mojave 1 out of 2 odds , using a Super Special form on one side.

Also you can't make a Super Special Mojave as the 2 individual genes are most likely alleles of each other. Either you make a Super Special or you make a Super Mojave but they are nothing beyond that going on in the Super forms. That's why the Super Crystal naming got people confused because it "implied" that it had Mojave in it BUT IT CAN'T genetically if in fact they are alleles. Hence the better name is "Super Special" for the one side of the equation and just plain ol Super Mojave for the other side . Basically put a Crystal Mojave is genetically EXACTLY mid point between a Super Special and midpoint between a Super Mojave. A Crystal Mojave breeds out like a Super as well with all offpring either being Mojaves or Specials..

Anthony

Anthony -- BEL or Super Special??? I am not savvy enough to help with that. All you "senior" Special breeders will have to figure that out lol. Comparing Clint's animal when it is about the size of yours when pic was taken -- 500 grams? would be some help I think.

I will say that the naming of Special combos is likely to get a bit more messy. Any new combo will need a new name that does not include "Crystal" if we are to respect Tom's original naming -- and I do plan to respect that.

My 08 Special male is finally breeding after a months of figuring out what to put where. I am pairing him with some girls that have been bred by other codoms and are approaching/have yet to ovulate. 2 of those girls are Cinny's. I would like to get that combo and breed that into a Butter. If all goes well -- I will need to think of a few new names -- a nice problem to have as they say!!!
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Bill Buchman

Best pic I have of him as a youngster. That's likely because I didn't take this pic Tom Baker did so I can't take any credit for the pic. Anyway here is the Super Special baby pic about as good of a photo as you can get for true representation of how he looked back then.

Anthony McCain

since when do we respect others people naming of morphs in this hobby, just look at how many morphs have 2 or even 3 different names even though they do the exact same thing genetically.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Wowser Anthony, such wealth of knowledge, reading your text just gave me a massive headache, please ventilate your text into smaller paragraphs

Anthony,

I Said in my post since i hadnt produced this animal(Pinstripe), everything is speculation.I appreciate your thoughts but quite frankly think your incorrect for several reasons. First, a Mojave/Vin russo cross makes the WHITEST of the BEL. Had i crossed mojave from my crystal mojave male into anything BEL related i would have a white snake with orange.With that being said my snake is LAVENDER, not white. I dont know if the photo is representative but trust me on this. Further, the snake has that 2 tone coloration that the supercrystal gets(i know the photo doesnt really show it). And even in the egg, there is Orange splotches on him which could be pinstripe influence but i think is more likely both. Finally, The whole snake is turning an orange tint and i think that could only happen under a supercrystal situation(because they allow color to show up)
And actually, You havent produced ANY special crosses but trust me again when i say BHB not only could but WOULD have missed them. Remember, Brian Barcyk is the one who said his Specials are NOT visuals? Well, the Tom Baker specials ARE visuals and i still see very little difference between a special pinstripe and a regular pinstripe. As a matter of fact, Didnt Brian Barcyk send you a Spectre without knowing what she was? And of course it really makes more sense. I mean, Brian would likely be able to spot an adult Lemon or whatever but could he spot an adult Special? Anyways, I look forward to breeding this female next year.

Clint , I guess you can prove me wrong easy enough just like I proved you wrong that a Mystic x Mojave made more than just another white snake. Sometimes assuming to much based on other things isn't the correct answer Clint. A Lesser x Mojave is FAR different than a Mystic/Phantom x Mojave , I told you this BEFORE my first Potion eggs we even visible snakes Clint and you argued with me like you KNEW more than I did about Mojaves or Mystics even though I had hatched out FAR more of both genes than you had . We have yet to make a Mystic Potion with a white head Clint, care to explain how my thinking is still wrong on this BEL complex stuff and yours is not?

Anthony McCain

I read half of that post and my head hurt. Cool snake no matter what it is bro. Congrats

ROFL...