Reptile & Amphibian Forums

everyone keeps saying that there is a witch hunt going on here in florida and that the media and fwc is picking on the reptile community. This just doesn't jive with me. This latest story for instance, did the guy have the ROC permit? Was the snake being housed in an escape proof/acceptable cage? The answer to both is NO. We have these laws on the books for a reason and if the proper authorities would enforce the ones we have now, there would be no need for any further laws. However, it has gone on for long enough now that the inevitable is going to happen, an all out ban on the ROC. If the FWC was notified of the albino burm that killed the little girl and they would have seized the animal and charged the man with not having the permits, she would still be alive and the massive outcry over the last few months wouldn't have happened. if other keepers would start turning in those that don't have a permit, we would all be in a better place. show the legislators that we can police ourselves.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

In my eyes, the witch hunt problem is the media sensationalism. The FWC is doing its job by enforcing the laws and seems to be fair in its dealings. When the media shows up and blasts inaccuracies and throws in biased commentaries from the reporters, they fuel a witch hunt mentality...All pythons are evil and their keepers are irresponsible, maniac, ridiculous people.

I agree the media is a problem. They almost NEVER do any fact checking when it comes to snake stories, and they exploit the general fear the public has regarding snakes. I don't know how some of these reporters can even call themselves "journalists."

However, the witch hunt started with junk scientists and politicians who are pushing an agenda. That's the real evil, imo.
A lot of what the media reports is simply what they've been told by the agenda pushers.

"Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play."
-Joseph Goebbels

I'm not prepared to say that the FWC is on a witch hunt, but I think Laura nailed it dead on about the media being on one. Fortunately, or unfortunately, we don't know how many ROC calls the FWC responds to without notifying the media.

One thing that I disagree with you on, Josh, is the part about reporting noncompliant keepers. I can see reporting dangerous situations, but if we start reporting all noncompliant keepers I guarantee you that it will quickly be turned around & used against us. Our silly, beloved governemnt will turn around & say, "We've had so many reports of noncompliant keepers that it appears nobody can be trusted with ROC, so we'll ban 'em all." Our government would love nothing better than to turn us into a snitch.

A better way of policing ourselves is to try to encourage fellow keepers to comply with the laws & to be responsible. Being proactive on forums such as this one goes a long way.

"if other keepers would start turning in those that don't have a permit, we would all be in a better place. show the legislators that we can police ourselves."

I honestly don't think we'd be in a better position. One thing I do know: Our legislators don't give a rat's fanny what we can or can't do. It's all about what they believe & what they want. Period!

Later!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

In my old feeble brain the most important thing in animal ownership is care of the animal. Bottom line this animal was well cared for. For you clearly the most important factor is a ROC permit. Which from the look of your list you don't have or need. If you bothered to read any of my previous posts I stated I don't live in FL. Hopefully I have all my facts right.
This ROC permit law was institued in Jan '08. FWC gave people until July '08 to comply. I agree that is plenty of time.
Of course this owner had already owned this snake 14-15 years.
I'm not from FL but as a Texan that would piss me off. I own an animal for 14-15 years without incident, I take perfect care of it, and it appears very few people are even aware of its existance and now the govt. says I need a permit. That wouldn't jive with me. However, months ago when another loser boy from FL, staged a fake burm capture FWC seemed to be in bed with this guy. Let me give you the recap. A "snake trapper" calls the media because a large(not really) burmese python was found in a culvert near an elementary school. The media shows up I'm not sure about FWC. As the story unfolds the trapper had bought the animal 2 weeks before at a wholesalers. He poked and prodded the animal until it struck. I'll go out on a limb and say the ONLY reason he purchased this animal was for this scenario. So I'm thinking the 2 weeks of ownership prior to the setup the snake probably had very poor care.
FWC ALLOWED HIM TO RETAIN POSSESSION OF THIS SNAKE!!!
Since you don't actually OWN any Burms I will assume to know more than you. There isn't 3 people that have ever visited this forum that have kept a Burm alive for 16 years. It just isn't that easy.
In my mind FWC should have showed up for the school burm. Scanned it check for a chip. If the snake is chipped, which I can't imagine, they find out right there it belongs to the trapper.(incredibly funny) If not chipped once they discover ownership the trapper is fined, snake confiscated, lose trappers license and a fine for trying to incite a riot. Face it it's like yelling fire in a crowded building. Burms are taking over our schools keep your children at home but don't turn on the tv the president may be talking.
One last thing about living in glass houses. You own the MOST aggressive breed of dog. People who Rotts, Dobermans, and German Shepards hate you. There dogs were bred for other reasons than just killing. Yet people lump them in the same catergory as pits. Even though pits per number maim and kill more than these other dogs. The Burmese python is the ambassador to the snake world. There is no reason why such a large extremely powerful animal would be so gentle. Other big snakes are more aggressive by nature. Other large animals are more aggressive by nature.
The Burm is an enigma. The biggest differance between Pits and Burms besides the massive numbers of maimings and deaths caused by pits is who is being killed. 99% of the time in a snake related death the person who dies is the owner/primary care taker. Seldom it is an innocent. Even when it is an innocent they "live with" the snake. Conversly 99% of Pits maimings, and deaths happn to innocents. People who have no relationship to the dog other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. There is an inherit danger to the owner of a big snake. There is an inherit danger if your neighbor owns a Pit. D.C.

I agree with you and your post is well said. I'M SURE THERE ARE MANY NONHERPERS IN FLORIDA THAT BOUGHT A BABY PYTHON MANY YEARS AGO AND SIMPLY ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY SPECIAL PERMIT BECAUSE THEIR NOT IN THE INDUSTRY AT ALL. Why can't someone have a pet Python just like having a pet dog or cat. The fact is I'm sure there are more folks out there that do. How would you like someone taking your 15 year plus pet cat or dog because of some law you never heard of and a neighbors complaint? I think this guy should have been allowed to keep the python and given time to aquire a permit he wasn't aware he needed in the first place. It's a shame that the idiot trapper wasn't arrested and even allowed to keep the snake and the guy with the 16 year pet wasn't. I feel sorry for him....I'm also not sure that snitching people out is the best option. Didn't that happen during the 1940's in Germany? I THINK CERTAINLY IF SOMEONE HAS THEM AND IS NOT PERMITTED WE COULD ADVISE THEM AND URGE THEM TO GET IT AND EXPLAIN THE CONSEQUENCES BUT SNITCHING THEM OUT IS SOMETHING I WOULDN'T DO. Divide and conquer by fearmongering is a trademark of a dictorial government.....Sorry for the rant....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

>>Didn't that happen during the 1940's in Germany? I THINK CERTAINLY IF SOMEONE HAS THEM AND IS NOT PERMITTED WE COULD ADVISE THEM AND URGE THEM TO GET IT AND EXPLAIN THE CONSEQUENCES BUT SNITCHING THEM OUT IS SOMETHING I WOULDN'T DO. Divide and conquer by fearmongering is a trademark of a dictorial government.....Sorry for the rant....

Tom,

The anti-snake propaganda campaign we are seeing would have made Joseph Goebbels (Hitler's Propaganda Minister) proud. Here are a few of Goebbels' quotes:

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

The guy who owned this animal didn't get his permit because he was in the process of moving to another state and he was taking his animal with him. After years of quietly maintaining his animal, I don't see how anyone can blame him for not wanting to get a permit when he's going to be moving anyway.

The permit system is a good thing in some respects but........In today's everyone wants to get into everybody else's business world the fact that the names and addresses of permit holders is not kept private is ridiculous. If someone takes the proper steps, is inspected by a state agency and granted a permit then its nobody else's business what someone has in their own home and the public shouldn't be allowed access to that private information.

As was pointed out this was a very well care for snake. The guy wants his animal back and it should be returned to the owner. I think FWC has been real fair about handling pet owners but they shouldn't have made a spectacle out of this.

Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.