Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some pics and the first 3 fully out.

thos are awesome. Black rats? They kind of look like fox snakes.

Sure does. Foxsnakes it appears to me as well. Close up imparticular.

That is absolutely amazing!..LOL!

Considering some very subtle variation, you could almost flip a coin as to what those are by initial looks alone!..LOL!

The slightly blunter looking snouts, slightly thicker band across the head, and only a few dark flecks on the head do indeed look vulpina-like, but then again, some ratsnakes can exhibit those traits as well. At that age, it is very hard to say for sure. I am not usually stumped on these things either, but they certainly do greatly resemble Fox Snake characteristics..LOL!

Only pics of the adults will solve this "best-seller" mystery novel,.....or until they age more, whichever comes first!..hahaha!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Here is a list of all the snakes found in Arkansas. No fox snakes in my area. The father is very interesting. I just posted the parents pics. www.herpsofarkansas.com/?n=Snake.HomePage Here is my location.

100% Arkansas Locale Black Rats. The parents were both WC in my yard here. They hooked up earlier this summer after being placed together, and then gave me 15 wonderful eggs! The father has the most stunning red color I've seen on a Black Rat. The mother is mostly black and white. Here are the parents and some more babies that came out this morning. I still have about 6 more left to fully emerge. Also I'd like to add that no fox snakes occur in my area(Stuttgart, Arkansas).

Black Rat Male These were taken right after he shed. Notice all that red.

Black Rat Female Outside, Belly Shots and Having a Soak

Yes, we all understand that now, and realize that Fox snakes do not natually occur anywhere in your area, but since nobody knew where you lived or anything else really regarding the hatchling pictures you posted, we were just commenting on how very similar they looked to vulpina.....which they certainly do.

There is no question whatsoever that those are indeed true blue obsoleta, like I knew they could very well be from the beginning. Thanks for clearing that up, I knew it wouldn't take long..LOL!

You have quite a few specimens and photos there too.

Also as you probably know,not too far to the south of you, lindheimeri is plentiful as well.

Congrats on the cool clutch of little guy's!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

"Also as you probably know,not too far to the south of you, lindheimeri is plentiful as well".

Funny, first thing that came to mind after seeing the red adult pic was, what is their range? Only ratsnakes I have seen that appeared as such I believe were from where these meet (intergrade's area).

I do not enough on their range to state anything but thats what came to mind when I first looked at the black rat with much red "pic"

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I love that female. Very nice. Black rats are awesome.

And yeah, I wasn't really sure what the hatchlings were at first. I kept going back and forth between black rats and fox snakes! Cool little hatchlings

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I remember when you posted pics of the parents. The male was outstanding with all of the red.
Those babies are beautiful.
I've seen a lot of baby black rats and I have to say I have never seen any that look quite like that.
Definitely interesting.
I LIKE !!!
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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