Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is there a genetic advantage in any morph, where it would be better to have a male or a female? Another way to ask this is why would you rather have a male of a certain morph vs having a female. I was talking with a gentleman at the Anaheim show about another person who sold a pretty rare morph snake, and he said it was a male to boot. obviously there is a reason why its better to have a male vs a female. anyone's in put would be greatly appreciated!
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Brian Grosart
foreverconstrictors@hotmail.com

I would say the male can make many many babies in one year. To the female 4-8 babies. And you can have him mate more morphs to see what you make. They can mate sooner too. I thank that is way. But I am new to ball pythons.
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2 Gray-Banded kings
1 bull snake
4 cal kings
1 long-nose
2 black rat-snakes
1 ball python
2 bearded dragons
4 boxers

Very good point, but on the other hand that would make males more valuable. For example, male het. pieds cost almost as much as a normal nowadays and females are almost 4X as much. Is this because the females grow larger, thus larger clutch, or is there some genetic advantage the females have over the males? And I have seen a snow ball male that cost $1000 more than a litter mate female, is this because they are homozygous for that morph? As you can see I am somewhat perplexed by this. The answer is probably staring me right in the face but hey I enjoy a good discussion, please join in!!
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Brian Grosart
foreverconstrictors@hotmail.com

How I see it (and I could be completely off) at least with recessive genes...there will always be more male hets on the market than female hets - supply & demand. More than likely to get those hets, someone bred their male recessive morph to 1 or more normal females. All the het male babies are not needed as the father is a visual. The person is probably keeping the female hets to breed back to the sire.

The "more males on the market" than females deal probably stands true for all the morphs, as most people keep some/all their females to breed in the future, and usually keep one (or none) of males produced. It doesn't make sense for someone to have three male mojaves - but it's sure nice to have three females!

Just my $0.02
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BALL PYTHONS
1.0 08 Mojave
1.0 08 Cinnamon
1.1 09 Het Caramel albino
1.1 09 Het VPI Axanthic
0.1 09 Piebald
0.1 09 VPI Axanthic
0.1 09 Orange Ghost
0.1 09 Black Pastel
0.1 09 Pinstripe
0.1 08 Spider
0.2 07/08 Pastel
0.4 Normal
OTHER SNAKES
1.0 Albino Boa
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Western Hognose
1.2 Corn Snake
LIZARDS
1.1 Bearded Dragon - Orin & Sierra
0.0.1 Red/Blue Hybrid Tegu - Jackson
MAMMALS
0.1 American Bulldog - Maui Rose
0.1 Shiba Inu - Mako (Starlite's Shark Attack)
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier - Magnum TT, CGC, TDI
2.0 White DSH Cats - Lucaya (Luke) & Fiji
1.0 Cinnamon Pinto Hedgehog - Niles

Hello,

This is an interesting topic which some of the newer keepers might find enlightening.

When a new morph is initially offered, males are often valued at higher prices in the beginning.
This is because that morph male can breed multiple females at an earlier age.
Often a male can successfully reproduce during it's first season. (Approx. 1 yr old.)
On the other hand...
The female morph will only likely produce a single clutch of eggs per year...and it will usually take her about 3yrs to become mature and large enough to produce that first clutch.

A lot of things (prices) can change in a three year period.

So initially, while the prices are high... (especially with co-dominant morphs) the males will have a better chance of fathering several multiple-morph combination clutches.
This will allow a breeder to have the best odds of making a sound return on his/her investment.
Even if this morph male is merely bred to several normal females...the odds are that the breeder will have a great chance of earning a decent profit....and produce some REALLY INTERESTING new combos. Certainly, some of these babies will be "keepers".

Over time, the morph becomes more common in the market and that male may become redundant. This is because he can be replaced with more impressive males....Supers (homozygeous forms of the morph) or Multi-Combo Morph Males.

Later on, (like say the third year after that morph was initially introduced) it is the female's turn in the spotlight.

Now, the females will tend to hold their value longer.
After all...if you have a big adult morph female...you can breed the current most interesting male morph or combo morph to her and make something REALLY SPECTACULAR!

These are considerations that every breeder gives plenty of thought to when they plan on which animals they will sell and what they will hold back.

I hope that was somewhat helpful and easy to understand.
Take care.

Your friend,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611
970-255-9255

.

You can't really compare recessives with co-doms.

A male het quickly outlives his usefullness after just one or two seasons. You need a male to make alll your own poss hets and produce morphs the cheap slow way. If you wanna do it faster, it costs more, get a het female. Unless there is a crisis in your life, it is very hard to justify getting rid of a proven breeder het female. That male starts taking up space awful quick.

As mentioned with co-doms, the male will produce faster and sire several clutches in 6-12 months. But, you must take into account weather that morph has a super or not. Spider and Pin females are not that much more than males, there is no visible super form. Pastels, mojaves, lessers, etc... are typically a little more than males. I'd never own 10 male lessers, I'd make magic happen whit 10 females though...lol So, there is one aspect of the differnce in demand. The champagne is another story, I don't have one so, I'm going off of what I read. Males are in short supply it seems, Everyone wants a male Champagne weather they knw it or not..lol If there is more of one sex available than the other, there is a good chance there will be a variant in the price.

even though spiders and pins don't have a visual super form, they do have supers....which can produce solid spider or pin clutches.

now take those supers and breed them into double, triple, quad morphs and you can make some things happen.

Pitoon

n/p

BHB has already reported geting solid clutches of pinstripes from multiple clutches of a particular pinstripe.

if................

PP = normal
Pp = pinstripe
pp = super pinstripe (looking just like a normal pinstripe)

i would bet that the spider gene would be the same. forget about spider x spider clutches be fatal because it has not yet been proven, however the pinstripe super has.

Pitoon

It also hasn't been proven that a homozygous spider is viable like the homozygous pinstripe.

I would also not forget about mutations where both sexes haven't proven that they can reproduce.

Don’t forget that these are mutations to the normal chemistry proven over a long period time as the best system for keeping wild ball pythons alive and reproducing. Some are probably only skin deep but others are not.

when did this become known???
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Vince Pramuk []__[]

I prefer males of morphs. Why?
Males can breed to multiple females. There is an up and down side though.
Multiple females means more chances to make more morphs. The down side...market flooding...especially in the case of super pastels, BEL's etc.
Breed a super pastel to a normal female, and you're looking at all pastels. Market flooding = dropping prices.
(Not that I am in it for the money, but I do like to make back some of what I spend)
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Thhis is my reasoning it maybe off but its the way I shop or pray for hatchlings. If its a recessive morph I usually look for females if its a co-dom/dom I want a male. The reason for this is I can breed that male to recessive females to produce the visual (dom/co-dom) het for that recessive gene and in the next year or 2 you can turn around and breed the hatchling het back to the mother. So say you have an adult ghost female and you just bought a spider male to breed to her. Your going to hope to produce a male spider which will be 100% het ghost. So HOPE you can get that male up to size in a years time and breed him back to mom and if the ball gods are with you wham youve got honeybees.
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

More is more!
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Brian Hettinger
480 Pythons
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