Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Frank and I should be getting ready for the Tucson Reptile Show but September is to awesome not too go herping in Tucson. Here are two of the six snakes we found in a hour and a half. Its funny about 3 seconds after this photo was taking the king thought that the baby coachwhip was going to be his dinner, don't worry we broke it up. Martin

Personally I would never go to a show that advertises a "No concealed firearm policy" in a gun friendly state.

Folks out there have their CCW licenses and have a RIGHT to carry. As a business they chose to restrict that right by refusing entrance or risk getting thrown out.

It is on their website. Go check it out.

I am sure some anti-gun folks will like this but if you are a legal gun owner this should be a show you should miss.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I try not to support any business if their choice not allowing licensed carry. I guess some just don't think it through, all you are doing with that policy is letting all the bad guys bring in guns as they don't care about licensing or the laws in first place.

What i don't understand is why rock the boat with ones political agenda when putting on a show.

I mean, if someone does bring a gun and is licensed. What do they think will happen and do they think they are liable?

whats next, pocket knives?

Weird.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Things were getting so bad when I was retired from the police force that you had to do a report every time you cleared your holster!! WTF. I worked midnights for thirteen years and cleared mine twenty times a night! I said they were going to want us to carry a book of harsh language for a weapon. Well, maybe not harsh. That would violate the criminals sensitive ears. DONT GET ME STARTED.

Things were getting so bad when I was retired from the police force that you had to do a report every time you cleared your holster!! WTF. I worked midnights for thirteen years and cleared mine twenty times a night! I said they were going to want us to carry a book of harsh language for a weapon. Well, maybe not harsh. That would violate the criminals sensitive ears. DONT GET ME STARTED.

Another good reason not to be with Law Enforcement.

I grew up in the 60's and 70's. I can hardly beleive what this country turned into. I bet those poor fellas who died in the second world war- WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES for you and me, would be turning in their graves. Their grandchildren are idiots.

But you know what ticks me off more than a reptile promoter playing right into the hands of more regulation. That is the LEOS who sign up for getting your snakes and guns. That is going on right now with snakes. I already had the Dept of agriculture here, Code enforcement, Fish and Game come give me a visit. Of course they will never be back again..

back a few years ago, i was given a citaion to remove all snakes because they though Florida kings were illegal in my state. They said they did not have the facilities to take my snakes at that time. So they would destroy them. But instead gave me a few days to relocate them out of state. Thank God for people like Dr. Ken Krysco and his research paper and thesis of DNA tests done on Florida kings species. These guys in reptile regulation still go by old Feild guides and listen to Zoo-herpetologists who give them advice and know nothing of herpetoculture.

Luckily and with help from the herp community I got the laws changed here in GA. Right before this bust on me there were others who had to pay high fines for keeping Florida kings. SO now the dept of agriculture wanted it all quietly swept under the rug.

Life is short folks. it is also not fair. We are only here for a short time (a blink of an eye) and then all will be lost anyway. Why make more regulations that malke no sense?

P.S.
I hope the promoter of this Reptile show reads this!
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www.Bluerosy.com

When your business depends on going to the reptile show this isn't an easy choice.

When your business depends on going to the reptile show this isn't an easy choice.

Yes i agree but. You could still carry as it only violates "policy" and you are not breaking the law. if discovered you would be asked to leave.

And you could just put some NRA stickers and a signup sheet at your table.
...or

You can just wait and do nothing. They will get our guns sooner than later.

Same thing goes with keeping snakes. Soon that will be taken away too. But keeping snakes is not a given right in our constitution, unlike as guns are. So it is just THIS mentality we see in OUR Hobby through a reptile promoter / businessman, that is hurting our own hobby.

At least that is how i see it.

Golden Peanut Butter brooks- out of my cold dead hands!~~~~

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www.Bluerosy.com

My employer has a no weapons policy and it hacks me off, particularly given the population of clients we deal with. But I need the job, so I just keep it discreet.

My employer has a no weapons policy and it hacks me off, particularly given the population of clients we deal with. But I need the job, so I just keep it discreet.

Yeah deiscreat until he finds out and then can fire you for breaking policy.

In my lifetime I will never understand this mentality. If someone has a federal backround check and is carrying legal I would think employers would WELCOME your defense of their company employees.

These kind of folks are the same ones who are S=L=O=W=L=Y taking our ability to keep reptiles. They think we need more regualtion. that society cannot have the responsibilty to keep and bear arms and keep snakes, turtles. frogs, lizards.

I like because they are beautiful.

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www.Bluerosy.com

Did any one like the photo of the 2 Snakes?

Sorry I did not mean to hijack your thread. At first i was going to reply what a cool snakes you found. Especially this time of year.

But then I looked at the link for the show this sept and I got carried away..
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www.Bluerosy.com

I think this is perfectly within the rights of our state and country(to ban concealed weapons). We are allowed to carry conceal and open weapons(handgun) but this country and state are protect our rights to own private property and to be able to control our individual wishes on our private property.

In this case, its the landowner that makes the rules, not the county, state or country. Or even the business who is temporarily renting the facility. Cheers

I think this is perfectly within the rights of our state and country(to ban concealed weapons).

Obviosly I don't agree with you on this Frank.

It all depends on how you interpret the laws. When they were written the original authors had a different context and meaning than the way some people intepret.

What I am still wondering about is WHY this promoter is so anel about guns? This is HIS agenda and I would have no part in it. Neither should any other "real" AMERICAN~

This is quite obvious that our country is divided. And we are heading to a path of destruction. This great nation that once was WILL FALL.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>... Neither should any other "real" AMERICAN~
>>This is quite obvious that our country is divided. And we are heading to a path of destruction. This great nation that once was WILL FALL.

I hardly know what to say, other than to wonder if the attempt to divide us into "real" and "not real" AMERICANS was an old joke i didn't quite get. Please tell me that's so.

Given my choice, I'd rather be at a show that banned handguns than at one where 50 or 100 people were carrying concealed. In the latter case, there are 50 to 100 chances of an accidental discharge, 50 to 100 chances of someone making a bad choice in a crowd because they've been dissed or jostled or been drinking or otherwise testosterone-challenged. Not everyone's gonna carry with all the good judgement and restraint that we'd hope for. Heck, YOU read the posts on this forum: aren't there some characters YOU wouldn't want carrying concealed at the next show? And they'd probably be scared by the thought of ME carrying.

Someone posted here that only the bad guys would bring guns to a show that bans concealed carry. Are we really that afraid as we go about our daily lives? (the joke would be to say here that if that's the case, then the terrorists have won). If I'm working at night in a high crime area, maybe it'd make sense to carry. But at a reptile show? Someone tell me how many trade shows, of the tens of thousands held each year, have been marred by people sneaking in guns and shooting up the places? That makes no more sense to me than carrying concealed at a town hall meeting or outdoor protests where emotions are high and scuffles break out.

Geez. Get a grip. Pun intended--something's gotta lighten up this thread.

And yeah, two cool snakes in the post that started this thread.

A real American

Once the promoter states no weapons at his show it becomes a gun free zone.

Check out the incidents at gun free zones over the last 10 – 15 years,

Not too many people who want to kill or rob or commit mayhem do so at an NRA convention, FOP convention, gun show or even a gun store.

These vicious attacks happen at schools, churches, and other “safe” gun free zones.

But it won’t happen here at a reptile show?

Do you have and use seatbelts; did you but your car because it is rated very safe with airbags etc.

Have you had need of them?

Probably not; you are a safe driver.

But what about all those people who don’t follow the rules and cause accidents?

You do want to protect your children don’t you?

A weapon is a tool.

According to some surveys a weapon is used to prevent violence over two million times a year.

Kind of like seatbelts; wouldn’t you say?
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www.Bluerosy.com

Rainer, I agree it's a tough issue. Crime's a sad problem in our country, as is the number of auto deaths. It's appropriate to take steps to reduce both. I think we can agree on that. I was just presenting my opinion that when I'm at a reptile show, the chance that someone's about to attack me with a gun and I'll be defenseless because i'm not carrying too, is about the last thing on my mind, and i think that's realistic.

>>Not too many people who want to kill or rob or commit mayhem do so at an NRA convention, FOP convention, gun show or even a gun store.
How many shootings have you heard of at reptile shows? There have been what, hundreds of shows per year for the past 10 years? So thousands of shows? How many have you heard of at computer shows? Health food shows? Boat shows?
>>
>>These vicious attacks happen at schools, churches, and other “safe” gun free zones. >>But it won’t happen here at a reptile show?
I'm talking probability, not possibility. And my opinions are based in part on my sense of safety from walking amid a crowd of armed concealed-carry people, who would protect those around them from an attacker vs the chance of accidental discharge or the chance that one of the people carrying misjudges circumstances or otherwise uses bad judgement so that he causes a violent confrontation, rather than ends one--remembering once again that i haven't heard much about trade show violence, which is really the issue under discussion here.

I'm surprised the couple of law enforcement people on the forum want a crowd of concealed carry people on the floor of a trade show where they might be either working, or carrying themselves as a part of their job. How do you figure out who the "bad guy" is once half a dozen people are waving guns? I'm interested in the cops' opinions on that.

>>
>>Do you have and use seatbelts; did you but your car because it is rated very safe with airbags etc. Have you had need of them?
>>Probably not; you are a safe driver.
>>But what about all those people who don’t follow the rules and cause accidents?
>>A weapon is a tool....Kind of like seatbelts; wouldn’t you say?

I AM a safety nut, you got me: belts, lots of airbags, defensive driving. 47 years without an accident. But I HAVE been carjacked at gunpoint, and saved, probably, by a particularly astute cop. There were 37,261 traffic fatalities in '08, the lowest since 1963, i think; there were about 13,000 handgun homicides on average, annually from 90-97. I think we can agree traffic fatalities occur everywhere on the nation's roads and highways and other than not driving on weekend nights (high cluster of DUI events) there's not much you can do to increase your safety, other than the steps you and i agree on above. But i think we can also agree that the large cluster of the gun homicides occur in domestic situations and in high crime areas, not at reptile shows.

Some people (I'm not among them) will skip the seatbelt if they're driving two blocks to the store, because they know intuitively and we know statistically that the risks are lower then. I put the trade shows in that same category. It's just my opinion.

But we do agree on how unfortunate the crime problem is. I'm for boosting the police, not civilian "law enforcement". I've said--since long before my carjacking, by the way--that police should be paid double what they're paid today.

peace
terry

I think I would start out by asking YOU what are the statistics on concealed carry holders in his state? How many are there and how many have been cited for infractions, like drinking while carrying, accidental discharges, assaults, shooting up trade shows?

What you fail to understand that policies restricting the ownership or carrying of a firearm only limits those who are willing to obey the laws.
The criminals do not care how many laws there are, they will still do what they want to do. They are the ones that these people should be afraid of, not the law abiding citizens who have gone through the legal system to carry a gun for their own personal protection.
Most criminals that commit crimes with guns are previous felons who would not be able to carry a gun legally if they wanted to. But they still do so.
I know of no crimes committed by a person legally allowed to carry a firearm, though there may be an instance of such, but it is rare compared to the other side of the coin.
If all law abiding citizens are unarmed, who will be armed?

The probability of a CCW holder committing any crime compared to the general population is extremly rare...it will likely turn out that the Fearful One may be much safer among CCW holders. In general CCW folks are less likely to be the ones.

"If I'm working at night in a high crime area, maybe it'd make sense to carry. But at a reptile show? "

The problem with this mindset, is that you never know when you will find yourself in danger. Sure a reptile show would probably be low on most people's "danger meters", but trade shows and conventions have always drawn people that prey on the attendees, knowing that many are from out of town, in unfamiliar surroundings, CARRYING LARGE AMOUNTS OF CASH in order to buy the rare reptiles that they wish to own.

I can point to tons of stories about people in "safe surroundings" where they were raped, beaten, and killed. I know I sound like a broken record on this story, but what could be safer than being in a good part of town, closing your Christian music store for the day?

"And they'd probably be scared by the thought of ME carrying."

Won't go there.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I lived in NYC for many years. In NYC it was a mandatory sentence of 6 months for carrying any handgun. A few years back many in NYC were outraged that so many would walk by as assaults on others occurred. If you live in NYC, it is only a matter of time that you pass by such an assault or become a victim of one. They were going to start fining individuals for not assisting.

On one occasion, I was running up a street to assist an elderly blind individual that was being assaulted, as well as his dog. Pitiful sight and it still makes me sick to this day. Anyway, as I approached the 3 individuals that were attacking them, it dawned on me that they are not running or nervous at all. As I was getting closer and deciding who to nail first, one of them calmly raised up his arm and opened fire. God had to be on my side that night as I saw the flashes and heard the report but nothing hit me. Thankfully, up in NYC crooks have no place to practice.

I have probably been a witness to, or in, 10 or so similar situations, as well as watching two individuals lose their life. Crooks in NYC love the fact that no one can carry a gun. Leaves them with more victims and no heroes to stop them. Anyway, they were talking about fining people for not assisting others during such assaults. Now that is was made public though crime started increasing at a greater pace. Then they increased the mandatory penalty to 2.5 years for carrying a handgun. Only people getting charged for carrying where those fearful of their environment. Crime was still very high as many of the criminal element carrying guns figured 2.5 years was nothing compared to the 5-10 they would get for doing what they normally do.

Now the press is printing this stuff like there is no tomorrow. Both sides deeply heated in debate. You have one side stating it's nuts to get involved as they have nothing to protect themselves with as heroes keep getting killed. Another side stating you have to do something even though you can not carry a handgun as people's lives were at stake and there is always the police to assist. Well, while all this is going on, one of the loudest voices supporting gun control was a high ranking Judge. I can't recall his nickname but it reflected his extreme sentencing on those that were convicted of carrying handguns. That was until one evening. He hears sounds in his backyard and goes out there to see what the commotion is. Commotion was two individuals that were trying to get into his house and were now approaching him. He aimed with his illegal .357 and dropped them both. He still sits on the bench. Everything went quiet after that night. Press backed off. No fining chatter for those that do not get involved. Laws are still as they were.

Always remember, when seconds matter, Police are only a few minutes away.

By posting a no gun policy in any situation can possibly motivate some individuals to consider that to be a safe place for them to target victims. You just never know, so better to be safe than sorry.

Rich,....I can just picture all this happening. And this is exactly what makes me see "red" as smoke shoots out of my ears every time I turn on my friggin' TV.

I would line a huge string of those punks up against a wall and and be done with it if I could. To me it would be just like taking out the Saturday garbage, or smashing a fly with a swatter. The REAL sad part is,......this will never happen in the feather-soft society we now have.

My blood pressure is building just thinking about this, so I'm gonna' go eat,....but point well taken.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I think we are also in agreement. If you've been in ten situations where people were being accosted by armed thugs, then you are in a high crime area, and i can understand the desire or need to carry a concealed weapon. No argument here.

I'm making a distinction between that and thinking it's needed at a reptile show, a HUGELY different environment than the ones you describe.

Sure, it COULD happen at a reptile show. But do we protect ourselves against EVERY risk? And if so, at what risk to others, however slight? A few examples: when you go to reptile shows, do you wear a bulletproof vest? You could get shot. Do you take the several different kinds of antivenom that could save your life if you or someone else was bitten? (can we agree if someone might take a gun into a snake show to commit a crime, one might also for whatever misguided reason take in a venomous snake? Even if it's a venomous-allowed show, do you carry your own supply of antivenom? Or personally check the supply that might be available there from show operators or emergency service?) Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Someone could throw something flammable on you, or there could be an accidental fire. There are similar protective steps too numerous to mention, i think, and no less likely than being attacked by a gun wielder or seeing an armed person attack someone else. This last one's less for personal protection than it is for looking out for the other guy, but do you carry a portable defribrillator whenever you're in a crowd? Whatabout the plastic device that clears an airway for administering CPR, whenever you're around a pool, or in your car at all times because most of us in the course of a day drive past a river or lake or pond?

And I'm not saying any of those are bad ideas. I carry a fire extinguisher and first aid kit in my car at all times. Each of the above examples could save a life--your own life, maybe--someday. The difference, i think, is that you'd be allowed to carry each of those items (except probably the fire extinguisher or the defib) into any public place, because authorities or the operators of those venues have concluded they pose no risk to the rest of the people there.

This isn't an argument about weapons in one's home. It's not an argument about whether CC should be allowed. It's a discussion of whether it's reasonable to have people carrying at reptile shows and similar venues. That's all. Someone had the opinion it was an outrage to have a no-carry reptile show. I had a different opinion and shared it here, because sometimes people see the first opinion or two and conclude that's the way everyone's thinking, and though we shouldn't care what other people think, that does sometimes sway our own opinions. Why do we post opinions here, other than in the sometimes nutty belief that we might influence how someone else thinks?! So I thought some readers deserved to know that not everyone thinks having handguns in a reptile show is neither a logical response to the threats there, nor--from my point of view--desirable. That's all!

"By posting a no gun policy in any situation can possibly motivate some individuals to consider that to be a safe place for them to target victims. You just never know, so better to be safe than sorry."

Everything I wrote prior to this conclusion was my premise. It was a long example of what posting such restrictions may promote over a period of time. My thoughts are if you CCW, then you should. Why take the chance. Oh, BTW, since our move to Florida, I have come to believe no matter where you go in the USA, all the streets are the same. It can happen at anytime, basically, anywhere. It happens here in Florida quite a bit as well.

Terry,

Most of the time the violent criminal element of society doesn't use guns. For example, when a woman gets violently raped it is rarely with a firearm present. Guns are what allow the weak to compete with an non-empathetic aggressor.

The more law-abiding citizens who have guns the safer we feel and the safer we actually are. Basic statistical facts back us up on this.

Did you see the post where I mentioned I had been robbed outside of the National Reptile Breders Expo? Three (3) punks with 45.cal automatics. They robbed 9 others as well. They robbed people in the lobby, the hotel parking lot and immediatly afterwards in a restuarant acroos the street from the Expo. When the cops where on one side they were robbing on the other side of the street. They were completly bold and took me by complete surprise. They targeted the people attnding the show because they knew we had money. I think they got like $3500. in cash from me that day.

Here is a joke.

A lizard dude told the snake dude that without legs, his snakes were just big worms. The snake dude got mad and showed the the lizard dude a gun he said he's use to blow the legs off the lizards.

Nancy Polosi is calling for a ban on all snakes and lizards because they cause gun violence.

Ya happy now?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I'm making a distinction between that and thinking it's needed at a reptile show."

That is kinda an arrogant statement. It's a good thing it's not yours, my, or anyones place to judge who can protect themselves.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Here is a reprint from a Detroit Free Press article. Michigan is a "shall issue" state for CCW permits, and this article discusses the relationship between violent crime and the loosening of CCW laws. The "Freep", is one of the most liberal papers in the nation, and even they had to concede to write the facts in this story:

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00358.html

Quote:
Six years after new rules made it much easier to get a license to carry concealed weapons, the number of Michiganders legally packing heat has increased more than six-fold.

"The police just can't protect you," Cortis said. "If you have to call 911, it's probably already too late."

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www.Bluerosy.com

Rainer,...I know full well what your point is here, and the intention is all great and fabulous, and I couldn't agree more with the intent, but the bare-bones reality of this is.........what are you going to do if some trouble starts at a reptile show,....pull out your long barreled 44 magnum and start firing into the jam packed croud of thousands?,...c'mon man!

After the snakes are put into the car, THEN you can pull out the heat and use it as you see fit. There is a time and place for everything, and a reptile show ain't one of them, it's really as simple as that.

I would be the very FIRST guy to take some of the "crud" of our society out of the picture PERMANENTLY! if given just the tiniest of opportunity. But good judgement must also be used in everyday life situations, regardless if it seems to interfere with one's belief sometimes, unfortunately as we can ALL agree, many do not have good judgement, but nobody can change that. It would have been great if every student at Columbine was packing "heat" too, but some things in life just aren't practical at all.

Anyway, I'll probably real sorry I ever bothered with getting in on this thread, because as sure as the sun rises in the morning, someone will attempt to twist every single thing I said, and make it into something it never was.

I like guns, and the guns aren't(and never were) responsible for anything as you well know, it's the criminal punks that will shoot people over a pair of high-top sneakers that need to be excluded from society. This is the #1 "cancerous" problem in our society today! They will do whatever it takes to sport some big chrome rims, a ten-thousand watt sound system, including murder, armed robbery, drug sales, and anything else you could think of to own this nonsense.....THAT is what needs to get addressed in this country. When how they "look", to their stupid little jive-ass punk friends is all their entire lives revolve around, then there is a huge problem in this country. I could go on for another week about this stuff, and I hate to get started on this stuff, because almost on a daily basis, I want to throw a freeakin' brick through my TV screen when I see some of this same crap that goes on. I'm sure you and other's can relate.

the end..LOL!

Now let's start talking about snakes, like the forum was intended...ARRGGH!!..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

You should read all of this thread first becuase i already posted them on your concerns, I will repost here for you again.

"The problem with this mindset, is that you never know when you will find yourself in danger. Sure a reptile show would probably be low on most people's "danger meters", but trade shows and conventions have always drawn people that prey on the attendees, knowing that many are from out of town, in unfamiliar surroundings, CARRYING LARGE AMOUNTS OF CASH in order to buy the rare reptiles that they wish to own.
I can point to tons of stories about people in "safe surroundings" where they were raped, beaten, and killed.

The problem is more likely to be in the parking lot where the lighting is poor, hiding places are many, and the escape is quick. Folks go to trade shows to buy...and have pockets full of cash. ..
........Or it could be right outside the reptile show as it happened to me. I didn't want to bring this up because the next thing people will think is I have been traumatized by this incident and now am some gun fanatic. I was just unprepared and thought I was in a gun free zone at the largest Reptile expo in the nation. So i did not have my gun on me.

I was robbed at gunpoint by 3 mid teenagers with 45.cal handguns that took all my cash before the expo right outside the expo. They ordered me into a bathroom where they could have easily took my life if they wanted to.

Let me tell ya there is nothing more helpless than looking down the barrel of THREE .45 autos with three 15 year olds holding them and knowing they can beat the system if they murdered me.

Another thing is I know of several reptile vendors who carry at Daytona into the show. One is a big cornsnake breeder that owns a website were people can go complain about reptile business practices. Do you think HE is safe INSIDE the show? He obviously doesn't. And if you know the website you know why.

I realize that this is the wrong method of trying to convert an anti-gun person (here on a kingsnake forum). It is highly improbable that I am going to succeed at this over the web. Face to face? One on one? Maybe a chance, but not like this.

Here's a typical situation: The gun owner says "I need my handgun at the reptile show because anything is possible and you never know; crime happens everywhere." But then the anti-gun person will say "So you believe it is entirely possible that a legal ccw can [fire his weapon]/[accidently shoot]/[whatever]....and that's why I say keep his weapon out as we attempt to lower the odds...." Gun owner replies "Anything is possible but not that." And so on.....

here is a recent video of a crowded subway station where a man goes bezerker and shoots and kills several prople. Warning graphic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNLPBtZRq_k
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www.Bluerosy.com

I read every word of every post made, and certainly you don't think I am anti-gun, right?

I've been robbed at gunpoint also years ago, and I agree, it ain't a good feeling. So I can relate 100 percent. It's too bad that happened to you as well. Like I said in my earlier post, I would "cap" every single one of those punks, and have a very refreshed sleep afterwards, that is a fact.

In any case, I don't think I need any convincing on how crappy things are in this country(or the entire world for that matter).

Another thing I just love about our good ol' "justice" system is that when a law abiding citizen uses a weapon in self defense protecting his/her very life from a criminal, many times THEY are the ones that get charged with serious things and are looking at hard-time instead of the criminal that instigated the situation in the first place..LOL!. This happens because the legal system doesn't want to "portray" like it's sending a message to everyone that it endorses this so even more similar instances don't tend to arise. The whole thing is just pure irony, and all of it makes me sick to my stomach.

So in the end, you do what you have to do, I certainly don't have a problem with it, as a matter of fact, I would love it if you took a few criminal punks out of commission..LOL!...seriously!. I wish I could even carry a gun now, but that all conveniently changed a while back. So here I am vulnerable to the very same thing we are talking about here,....when it's all said and done, I guess certain parts of life just plain suck big-time. I've found out over the years that alot about life really isn't about what's best, or right, or fair, but rather about what is the lesser of the evils, know what I mean? I am the last person on earth that takes lightly to all this nonsense street crime crap,... rest assured..

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

What? No comment on me getting robbed by 3 guys with guns at the National Reptile Breeders Expo?

Yes it really happened. They aslo robbed a few other peope who had cash on them for the expo. Criminals know what they want. I posted the whole thing here a few years ago.
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www.Bluerosy.com

>>"and I agree, it ain't a good feeling. So I can relate 100 percent. It's too bad that happened to you as well."

That was in my very first sentence, look above. I said " It's too bad that happened to you as well".

Like we all agreed, senseless crime happens everywhere, so it's not in the least bit surprising that it even happened there before you got inside, or to your car.

So next time(if there is one), just quietly pull out your "piece", and blow their lids off and walk away. That's what I would do,....if I was "packing" that is. More power to ya' if you do so, it would be a great service to the entire country in my opinion.
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Looks like the Chimp knows a fine piece. Almost 100 years and still going strong.

Before this thread disappears I would like to add that those 2 snakes are a great find. 6 snakes in an hour or so must have been exciting. Nothing beats seeing herps in the wild, nothing. I hope you share pics of future findings as well.

I still went to the Tucson Show, I like my snakes, more then my 40 cal. I got 2 Awesome Hypo Splendida from Kerby Ross, and one Anery Splendida and one Anerythristic Splendida from Don Shores. And Frank Retes and I sold all are Baby Kings it was a blast.

So why don't we stick to the topic of the OP and say nice snakes, where the hell did this come from? Rainer, it's a herp show, are ya' carryin' in Daytona? I wish we could leave this crap outside this forum. Not that it's crap, but it is in here. Snakes don't kill people, people with snakes kill people! LMAO!
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Todd Hughes

Thanks, it was cool finding 6 snakes in a hour in half, Frank Retes is good luck. I still went to the show and left my 40 cal at home. I got 4 Awesome Slendidas two from Kerby Ross and two from Don Shores, it was a great show! and Frank and I sold all are baby kings as well. Take Care Martin.M

I really was sorry not to have met up with Frank this year when I came to Az. The Santa Ritas and surrounding areas are haunting, it will be a place to revisit for years to come, hope to see you next time Frank!

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Todd Hughes

Todd, Next time you come to Tucson {Try to come In September that's when we do the best} I should be able to take you to a few cool spots that I have found over the last 40 years or so, and I am sure the old man {Frank Retes} would love to go. Martin

Thanks Martin, hopefully next year I can return to your beautiful state, still many things to see!

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Todd Hughes

So why don't we stick to the topic of the OP and say nice snakes, where the hell did this come from? Rainer, it's a herp show, are ya' carryin' in Daytona? I wish we could leave this crap outside this forum. Not that it's crap, but it is in here. Snakes don't kill people, people with snakes kill people! LMAO!

Well if I did not intervene this thread would have only had two posts long. LOL!

Besides it is herp related. I shared how i got robbed at gunpoint outside of the National Breders Expo. This promoter of the AZ show wants to make a big deal of displaying his "gun free zone" for all the criminals to see. How do you think those guys robbing people at the Breeders expo knew that people would have lots of cash in their pockets. Geez , if i was a criminal that is where i would go to get some cash. Not rob a pizza joint or a bank. That night when i got riobbed 9 other people did as well. Including my friend who was with me. We all had loads of cash on US THAT WE SAVED TO GO TO THE SHOW, and it was all taken.

iS There is a parking lot? A hotel? where is A PERSON VISTING THE SHOW supposed to leave their gun? In a hotel room for the maid to find? Or in your vehicle? NO! ..no..one neerds to bring it into the show. Where everyone will be safer. Or at least the odds in a better favor. Personally i feel really safe at a gun show.

Too bad the promoter is so worried about responsible citizens who have had a federal backround check and a course on guns is to worried about them bringing guns into his show.

Now i heard that there was an incident where someone who showed a weapon inside of the show to another vendor. But don't have anymore info on what happened there or if the guy with a gun was a legal CCW holder. Probably not.

Arizona has a stringent CCW course. Most of the people wyho pass, know how to handle themselves with a CCW. They are responsible citizens. It is the bad guys who are carrying and don't have a license we need to worry about.
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www.Bluerosy.com

That is not the point, no offense Rainer but this was a hijacking, might as well have been you holding the gun on the original poster. I completely understand how you feel and commiserate, but stay on topic lest threads get yanked, at least start another thread of your own and bring it to the top. Again, I understand, but this is a kingsnake forum, you share a lot of cool stuff here, let the others have the same opportunity and give them the respect you command with your awesome snakes. It would have been longer than 2 comments on its' own merit.
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Todd Hughes

So why don't we stick to the topic of the OP and say nice snakes, where the hell did this come from?

That would be the "field herping forum". This was the wrong forum to begin with for snake hunting pictures.

Though it is nice to see on here.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Last time I looked this was a KINGSNAKE forum, I believe the snake on the right side of my photo is a kingsnake? At least that's what I have come to believe in my 40 years of herping. You turned my photo into a gun rights issue on a kingsnake forum, not me. I will also continue to posting my photos on this forum because a few this Gentlemen have asked me to. Martin

No need to defend your post....you did nothing wrong.

Kerby...

And Thanks you for the Great SNAKES. Martin

Right on the money Kerby. And I'm sorry I even took part in some of it towards the end.

Hopefully THAT part is over with................but one can never be sure about anything here..LOL!

BTW,...those SNAKE'S the original poster found were great finds!......OOOPS!, was I on topic??..hahaha!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

You guys are splitting hairs here.

The OP complained that his post was turuned into something else. I even mentioned very early that I was sorry for gun-jacking his thread . But post about the gun show the OP mentioned was just as on topic since it was in reply to something he posted about the upcoming Tucson show. That is the only reason i mentioned the pics from field herping was also a bit "off". And it was. There is a Field herping forum for just that:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=149

In other words , touche'!
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www.Bluerosy.com

I believe he responded with finding some delicup hunting productivity from the show, why would it have to go on the field herping forum only? If he was hunting for kings and ran into by product, why not be able to show it? Besides, the gun thing is as far or further off topic than the king/show thing, IMO.
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Todd Hughes

I wrote that quickly as I was late for the show. As I am today, hahahahahahaha out herping late last night.

I did not mean to say for our state and county to ban arms. I don't have the time to check what I actually meant.

we can carry side arms openly, and concealed with a permit.

Its the right of the land owner to allow or not allow weapons on their property. In this case, that is what is happening. Its not about fed, state, or county laws. Its the choice of the property owner. The show is on private property. Which is what makes america what it is.

This was a private choice made by someone with the rights to make that choice.

Of course, its your choice to go to the show or not. Cheers

I agree there may be little possible reason to have a gun while attending the big reptile show, but outside those doors, on the travel there and back, there might be. Disarming a civilian means they either leave the gun at home and loose that protection option during travel and other activities that day, or they leave the gun in the car while in the show and risk theft and it falling into the hands of criminals plus a gun in the car isn't where it needs to be if you are mugged in the parking garage.
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www.Bluerosy.com

I am sorry you live your life in fear of danger. I was raised in watts(left right before the riots), and danger is normal. But to live in fear is all about you. That you cannot even go a few yards without a gun. How about learning to protect yourself or how to avoid danger. That will work for a few minutes.

That you want to void the rights of private property, because of your fears. I am sorry 4 you.

This reminds me of Tomstone and Wyatt Earp. You know, check your guns at the door.

And there was an altercation in the show. Good thing no firearms were envolved, there were lots of people, women and children standing around.

This is my concern, its not about you. You must be a responsible gun owner that has learned not only how to use firearms, but also how to avoid using firearms. If you take the average person, hmmmmmmmmmm Ok below average, and give them guns, that is enough to cause fear. U C this is a circle of fear, I fear the folks with guns, so i need a gun. Is this you?

I support the private ownership of guns, I wish it was harder to get them and more education and REAL training was envolved. Just think, some of those gun toting folks have less training then most of our newbie herp owners. Cheers

I must interject here. It is true many may not be as well versed in actual harmful situations. Conditioning in life experiences may help. Most, really never know how they will act if the time presents itself. It's typically those of the criminal element that are reckless, careless or what have you with their firearms. For the most part, they really don't care.

Never been to Watts but when I think of it, I feel it a very rough place to possibly grow up in. I know how to defend myself, and know how to maintain myself on the street. I usually can pick up on potential situations before they occur. But, these days, it's not just fear in itself that makes one carry a handgun. I've unfortunately seen more than my share in life. In both a place that bans handguns as well in a place that CCW is a common part of life. I'll tell you this, It's a hell of a lot safer when it is known that people have a CCW. This does change the environment.

But, with me, I do not want to ever be the guy that has to witness something horrible occuring to another with me keeping a blind eye. I do not want to be this guy. Pick up any edition of an NRA magazine. Read the stats and stories about the affect on society CCW has made. We all hear about the horrible school shootings that occur annually. Many live's are lost. What if some had CCW. Many of these situations could have been stopped immediately. And, many have. I believe two just this year alone that I know about. It's amazing though how they get such little air time and such.

Me, I would never be able to get over letting something terrible happen to anyone in my family wth me having to watch and feeling so helpless if I could not interject. Not that I am fearful at all. I just don't want to be that guy who is possibly sitting on his hands during such a situation.

Most that I know take safety very serious. For example, they think about which ammo would be more appropriate for a possible situation they may encounter. Ammo that does not over penetrate walls and such that could harm inncocent people is only but one example. Criminals on the other hand care less about such things. They focus their purchases on what can do the most overall damage. Can go on and on about this, but I think my point was made.

For the life of me though I will not ever get over how so many people change their stance once they become a victim. I do not know of any victim locally that did not have a change of heart. Some people just need to experience all this themself. To those people I wish you the best as I believe is still better to be safe than sorry. If that time ever comes, it may very well when you have a change of heart but it could very well be too late.

I can go on and on but I think my point was made.

Nope. There are not 50 to 100 chances of those things happening because the astronomically huge majority of people carrying guns at a show will have a 0% chance of an accidental discharge (because they're not dicking around with their gun) and a 0% chance of "making a bad choice" because sane law-abiding men just don't do that in reality even under the influence of alcohol or testosterone or anger. Ever see a news story about guys gunning each other dead over a spilled cup of coffee because the carry laws were relaxed there? No? That's because it simply doesn't happen. How many of us here carry a knife every day without stabbing people who irritate us? It's the exact same thing.

Why carry at the show then if it's not likely to be needed? It's just good to be able to carry everywhere. We must enjoy or legal rights fully or they get stolen. It's that simple. Also bizarre things do happen. I don't fear for my life when I sit down in a nice restaurant, should I be allowed to carry a gun there? What if we consider that guy who ran his truck into such an establishment in Texas and walked around murdering and viciously wounding dozens of people unchallenged because it was a "gun-free zone"? That was not a hypothetical argument. That was a real tragedy that made corpses out of people just like your mother, your brother, and your child.

Why on earth would any civilian carry a gun? After all the odds of needed it on any given day are like one in a trillion. Maybe it's because the odds that every day many people in this country will be raped and/or killed and/or robbed are 100%. It might not be happening near you or me right this minute but there's a very realistic chance that crime will face us, our family, or our friends in the future.

Ever notice how crime drops when citizens start packing? It does happen very reliably. Crime happens to victims. It does not happen in the face of overwhelming righteous might.

FR said:
"I am sorry you live your life in fear of danger. I was raised in watts(left right before the riots), and danger is normal. But to live in fear is all about you. That you cannot even go a few yards without a gun. How about learning to protect yourself or how to avoid danger. That will work for a few minutes.

The one living in fear is the one paranoid that guns explode on their own or jump out of people's pants and slaughter buses full of nuns and schoolkids.

A reasonable man is not afraid that he, his friends, and other reasonable people are incapable of carrying a chunk of metal without constantly looking for a way to misuse it. A reasonable man is not as afraid of crime because he knows he is not helpless.

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www.Bluerosy.com

I was having dinner with my parents the other night at a place my parents frequent. My dad points to a table about 10 ft away from where we were sitting and said "A retired cop carring a concealed gun in his pocket accidentally discharged his gun right there when I was eating lunch here the other day". The retired cop had it in his pocket when it went off somehow. My father saw the hole in his pocket when he walked by him as he was leaving. Luckily the bullet went into the floor and not off the floor into someones childs head. Yes this is a true story.
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Randy Whittington

not really funny, but hard not to let out an uncomfortable chuckle at the bizarreness of this accidental shooting that happened near me this summer

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531376,00.html

talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time!
Oh, Crap!

So much for constipation. Bet that never happens again.

Most woman carry cheap handguns that don't fire when you want them to. Unless they are dropped.

I bet that was a cheap Jennings or Lorcin or something. Any quality handgun over $300. cannot have an accidental discharge. Not even the $200. Kel-Teks can have an accidental discharged if dropped. They are drop-proof.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

>>"...the astronomically huge majority of people carrying guns at a show will have a 0% chance of an accidental discharge...and a 0% chance of "making a bad choice" because sane law-abiding men just don't do that in reality even under the influence of alcohol or testosterone or anger."

An actual quote. And I'll be darned if i can think of an intelligent response to it.

>>The one living in fear is the one paranoid that guns explode on their own or jump out of people's pants and slaughter buses full of nuns and schoolkids.

Wow. (I composed several responses here and then discarded them; what can i say?) Well, this: I think you've taken a thought i expressed early on, and twisted it like a kingsnake weaving up and through some hurricane fence (I got us back on topic!)
>>
>>...A reasonable man is not as afraid of crime because he knows he is not helpless.

This is my parting thought on this thread. Some of the posts here sound like people who can't tolerate the fear of being helpless. But most or all of us will be pretty helpless at some times in our lives. Life's like that.

Some personal examples: the xray shows a large mass on my daughter's leg, and doctors think it's cancer; my father's about to die; the plane I'm in has engine trouble; the drunk following our taillights follows us when we pull off to check a map, and when we stop, he doesn't, hitting us at 50 mph. To turn to the handgun topic, we can be armed and still end up helpless in the face of crime: (hypothetical examples this time, and million-to-one chances, but so are the odds of a gunfight at a snake show): An intruder has us at gunpoint before we've even awoken; a thug holds a knife to our loved one's throat and demands we put our gun down (apart from imagining you might play out some hollywood movie scenario, what DO you do?) a crazy person bursts into the room spraying shotgun fire before we can even reach for our weapon. Sure, it's scary. But it's real. Maybe the ultimate fear is our fear of how we'll react in those situations when we ARE helpless. Maybe we arm ourselves and take all our precautions because in part we don't want to find out how we'd react. So do everything possible to avoid being put in that situation. There are all kinds of courage. Who's to say the guy who walks into a reptile show without fear is less courageous than his friend who walks in packing?

For me, I'm still gonna answer my door to strangers without first having my gun in my hand, hidden behind the door. And though I've been carjacked at gunpoint, I might still pick up the occasional hitchhiker, exercising the best judgement possible without surrendering my principles to my fears.

Peace. And I"m outta here!

Of ALL the people who post on this forum--the thought of you being armed at a reptile show is actually reassuring.The rest--knowingly, I would probably skip.

I am sorry, I am not going past the first paragraph. You sir, are so wrong. If there are guns in the hands of people, then that automatically indicates a percentage of accidental discharge. PERIOD. THAT IS MATH.

You sir are afraid to walk across a parking lot, because of what some fool will do, yet you are not afraid of a room full of people with guns????? I question your thought process.

In this case, your only rationalizing your stance. Plain and simple.

I am for protecting ALL our rights and to carry a gun is one of them. To protect our rights means to respect the right of private ownership. That means, the owner of that property has the right to ban guns at that event. That sir is REPECTING ALL OUR RIGHTS, not just the ones YOU want.

You see Bluerosy, in this case, your as bad as a controlling government. You want it your way, only because of your fears. Private property is a real key to our rights, and its being eroded away by a controlling government, just like the right to bare arms.

On this forum its the same, you fight for the rights of snakes, you feed them large meals and allow them to live together. Yet there are many people here that feel thats wrong and they need to control everything in the snakes life. Keep them one temp, one hide, one per cage, feed once a week, the exact same thing for their entire adult life. Sir, doing that is a human control issue, just like your doing here. Those folks rationalize all manner of reasons why they have to control "THEIR" snakes, and you are doing the same.

I agree with you. Fight for your rights to carry a gun, but also respect the rights of private ownership of property.

Oh, you appear to have little faith with people, yet you think you carrying a gun will help that. Sir, if a bad guy wants to harm you. You having a gun will not stop that. You do not think the bad guys in a state where concealed weapons are allowed, KNOW THAT???????? They may be bad guys, but that does not make them stupid.

Please back to kingsnakes. Cheers

In this case one right is being used to take away another right so that is not respecting all of our rights.

I wouldn't say its being scared to walk across a parking lot. Think of it as being prepared for the worse case scenario.

A gun that is holstered will not go off by itself. It is impossible for a accidently discharge. Someone woul have to be screwing with it or it would have to be unholstered. Which seems to be becoming a fad these days with the little carrry guns that they are making.

Why be scared of a room full of gun carrying people? The more poeple that know there are people with guns are more unlikely to use them.

I believe that is what the point rainer was trying to make when he first piste his opinion. People know a snake show brings a lot of cash. If you advertise no guns even with permit than you are just inviting trouble. People will watch who makes what and when they leave that's when the trouble starts.
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Please don't talk about snake prices when my wife is around!!

I am sorry, I am not going past the first paragraph. You sir, are so wrong. If there are guns in the hands of people, then that automatically indicates a percentage of accidental discharge. PERIOD. THAT IS MATH.

When someone carries a gun it's not in their hand. They're not messing around with it or waving it around or dropping it. It sits right where it belongs in the holster. In this condition an accidental discharge isn't going to happen with any pistol of realistic quality. It isn't going to happen the same way it never happens that someone is minding their own business and suddenly their shoes take off running down the street.

You sir are afraid to walk across a parking lot, because of what some fool will do, yet you are not afraid of a room full of people with guns????? I question your thought process.

I'm not afraid of either. Crimes do happen often in parking lots however and it does not ever happen that a room full of reasonable law-abiding citizens suddenly start shooting each other over nothing.

I'm not afraid of the dark but I keep a flashlight in the glovebox. It's the same thing.

Oh, you appear to have little faith with people, yet you think you carrying a gun will help that. Sir, if a bad guy wants to harm you. You having a gun will not stop that.

That's absurd. Having a gun is an extremely effective way of deterring and stopping crime. "Bad guys" are not super villains capable of leaping buildings in a single bound and punching speeding trains head-on with such force as to fling them backwards.

If you point a gun at a criminal they will feel fear. They will lose confidence in their actions and likely around 99% of the time will not respond aggressively. They don't want to get shot plain and simple. Crazy meth-heads are astronomically rare in the real world. Most of the time when someone defends themselves with a gun no shooting is necessary because the psychological power of the device encourages the rational part of a criminal's mind.

When violence is needed a handgun is of course easy to use and very effective with practice. Anti-gun folks like to imagine that criminals are super-ninjas capable of closing any distance instantly and disarming anyone with ease so they may use our weapons against us. This idea is retarded. In the real world criminals are ordinary guys and pulling a gun and dropping someone is not a legendary or even impressive feat. All it takes is a little simple practice drawing and putting holes in a torso-sized target every month or so.

You do not think the bad guys in a state where concealed weapons are allowed, KNOW THAT???????? They may be bad guys, but that does not make them stupid.
That's why crime doesn't happen nearly as often in areas where concealed carry is prevalent. The simple possibility does have a strong deterring effect.

Criminals do tend to be stupid though so if you are carrying a gun and they decide to try something their plan isn't likely to be well thought out. If you don't believe me go find anyone with real experience with law enforcement or prosecution and ask them how often they arrest or convict someone who really put good thought into the consequences of what they were doing.

As for the rights of private establishments just so I understand your position: do you believe that a store owner has the right to deny service to racial minorities? Was this a right eroded away by a controlling government?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Let's use the Tucson Reptile Show as an example, obviously there are larger reptile shows.

Tucson had about 50 vendors, and about 5,000 people through the doors in 2 days. NOT ONE person was checked for firearms coming through the doors. I would say that at any moment during the day there were about 50 concealed firearms in the building from the public. By the end of Saturday the vendors were probably holding about $100,000 - $150,000 (that could obviously be low) in cash in the building, plus the gate receipts of about $25,000 and NO ARMED SECURITY. A robbery waiting to happen......and who would stop it? I'm not sure how many people were able to deposit any of their sales at the end of Saturday, so Sunday could have been worse as MORE cash was just sitting there with no ARMED security.

I carry.

Nuff said.

Kerby...

And good thing too. If they were armed(the security that was there) they may have shot that lady that stole the snake or here protective boyfriend.

Is shooting anyone, even the thief worth any snake in that building or worse having an innocent bystander harmed??? No its not.

In your case, you choose to not obey a request, to not carry in at the show. As someone who worked for the law, you should know thats the same mentality the stinkers have. You are doing what suits you. Thats what they do, so why have laws? hahahahahahahahahaha

The reality is, if you respected the law and the constitution, you would make a choice. If you could not put your gun down, then don't go to the show. You broke someones elses constitutional rights. Its their property and they have the right to ban concealed weapons. Its your choice to attend or not. But you did attend! and did carry? then you are the bad guy. Remember Kerby, this is just conversation and I do not think less of you and still think of you as a friend. I think in this case. You did not respect others rights. Cheers

The reality is, if you respected the law and the constitution, you would make a choice. If you could not put your gun down, then don't go to the show. You broke someones elses constitutional rights. Its their property and they have the right to ban concealed weapons. Its your choice to attend or not. But you did attend! and did carry? then you are the bad guy. Remember Kerby, this is just conversation and I do not think less of you and still think of you as a friend. I think in this case. You did not respect others rights. Cheers

Frank this is exactly the kind of thinking that will get guns taken away, period. You are no different or have no new insight than what is causing 50% of this country to be against itself. Unfortunatly your side is winning. And it is not just with this issue either.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

I know there was a incident at the end of the show, I do not know the specifics of that. And I cannot predict (nor can you) what would have happened if we had armed security. Yes, I would not like it if someone would ever stole a snake....whoopie-doo. Whatever.......

But I would be concerned if a few thugs came in armed and tried a robbery....see after spending 9 years in the Infantry and a few years with YCSO, I (nor you) can predict what an armed robber will do. If I feel threatened (by a weapon), then I will not play the odds "will he or will he not squeeze the trigger". If an a thug comes in and displays a weapon in a threatening gesture and I feel my life is in danger, then I will defend myself. Has nothing to do about a stupid unarmed couple stealing a snake.

Bullets don't discriminate....and I don't play the odds game when a weapon is pointed at me.

Nuff said.

Kerby...

Frank, since Arizona is an open-gun law state, if a business displays a sign at the entrance stating that weapons are prohibited, then that business must also provide an opportunity to secure that weapon before entering, either the business will secure the weapon or they provide gun lockers....otherwise their request is null and void.

Kerby...

Interesting. Would this mean if the Show's promoter did not secure the handgun when presented then one could bring in their handgun?

Did you present your handgun?

Correct.

"Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01"

"Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01"

I thought that any business owner can refuse service to anyone for any reason?

Are you saying a business that has no secure storage has to (by law), let you enter?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

I don’t know about AZ but in KY very few place are off limits to open carry of a hand gun and even fewer to concealed carry. We have had a few incidents where the local constabularies are not as familiar with the laws as they need to be.

Once such instance a man walked into a Kroger supermarket with a hand gun on his hip and was shopping when an assistant manager ask him to leave because his presence was “disturbing” the other patrons, he refused. The police were called who confronted him at gunpoint and removed him in handcuffs. They “detained” him, fingerprinted him, and confiscated his firearm. They ran his fingerprints and found out he was the sheriff of another county in KY. When he was ask why he did not identify himself as law enforcement he simply stated “I shouldn’t have had to”.

Once such instance a man walked into a Kroger supermarket with a hand gun on his hip and was shopping when an assistant manager ask him to leave because his presence was “disturbing” the other patrons, he refused. The police were called who confronted him at gunpoint and removed him in handcuffs. They “detained” him, fingerprinted him, and confiscated his firearm. They ran his fingerprints and found out he was the sheriff of another county in KY. When he was ask why he did not identify himself as law enforcement he simply stated “I shouldn’t have had to”.

So open carry IS legal in KY?

Here in Georgia we have an open carry law for any citizen who is not a felon. It says that anyone legally allowed to own a firearm can openely carry without a CCW permit. But if you want to conceal carry you need a CCW.

We also have a law in Georgia that says anyone can have a loaded handgun in their car without a CCW. That your car is an extension of your home. When I first moved here from Kalifornia I started with having a gun in my vehicle. Also i noticed there is a lot less raod rage here. Actually i never saw any. But in Kalifornia I saw lots of road rage. Connection there???...hmmm?

I never see people "open carrying" around here. I wonder if this has been tested much with locale LEO's. I would also think by open carrying you are making yourself a target for criminals to steal your handgun.

But their is a town 10 miles from where I live that has a law that anyone living within the city limits muct show proof of ownership of a handgun. That is the law. Guess what else. there is hardly any crime in that city. Matter of fact is it one of the most crime free cities in the US.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

It is legal in KY to open carry without a permit. It is legal to have a firearm in the open or in your glove box.

Thanks for posting the law concerning this issue. Never thought to ask what the State law was concerning such.

If it is as I read it to be, I find this a very reasonable law.

Be interested in knowing how many, even when supplied with this info., that legally CCW, actually presented their handgun to the promoter. I would bet not many as I would also bet there was no secure lockers for people who did.

I believe if I knew this info. right from the start I would never have posted to this thread other than a congratulations post on spotting herps in the wild.

Beautiful, wish I could get out somewhere with anything but garters and rattlers! Kings-too far north and milks- too mountainous around this valley...

Yeah Kings are my favorites to find, There are so cool.