Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We recently took some updated photos of our Boas. These are the photos I took of out 'Chaos Bloodline' Boas. We purchased them direct from Peter Rice last year and they have to be my favourites. We have a 2:2 group, the males should be ready to breed next season so we have purchased a CA female to breed them too (on the look put for another). The Hypos are poss supers also. Hopefully these guys will prove out for us.

Female

Hypo Male

Hypo Female

Hypo Male

I'm not sure I'm seeing what's different enough about them to warrant a "line" label and to justify inbreeding. Are these lower expression animals of the trait?

I see that the saddles don't look "normal", perhaps slightly aberrant, but they're also not THAT different either. Can you point out what I'm missing?

Also, why should someone choose that line versus another aberrant line?

Thanks!
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

The first one looks similar to some Nic x Hog crosses that I've seen the second one pictured (hypo) looks like the Hypo Hogs that Gulf Coast Reptiles produces.

Amie

These are just litter mates from the Chaos Boas that Peter Rice produced. Here are some photos from Peters website of the Chaos Boa

Soooo, they're Central American hypo jungles?

Amie

Yes, thats the Idea

Here are some of the past threads about them:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1354947,1354947&key=2007

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1296744,1296744&key=2007

But they are really nice!

Peter refers to them as CA Jungles

This is his explanation of them on his website:
We have proven out the CA Jungle line and named it the "CHAOS BOA".
a worlds first here at RTC

We Produced the first CHAOS back in 2005 By breeding a Central American Motley
into a Gee Line Hypo the result being two visual CHAOS there where also Hypo Motleys and normal Motleys in the litter

Since the 2007 breeding results we can now confirmed the CHAOS gene is dominant.

We will continue crossing the Chaos gene with the Central American Motley to try and create some strange patterns, we will also cross the CHAOS mutation into a few selected lines of hypomelanistic Boas to reduced pattern on the CHAOS mutation

Here's why it's a bad idea to even mention the word jungle.

Scenario:
Person 1 thinks to themselves (who is new to the chaos mutation): So I saw on Peters site that these are CA jungles. That must mean that he crossed the LARS BRANDLE LINE JUNGLES into a CA boa to get these. That means if I buy one, I can breed it to a jungle I bought from Pete Kahl and produce SUPER JUNGLES! I think I'll go buy one now.

...

Person 1 talking to person 2: Hello, is this _______? I noticed on your site you have chaos boas. I'd like to buy one. Here is the money, please give me my chaos boa.

Person 2: Sure, thanks for the money, here's your boa. Hmm... that was easy.

...

Person 2 then thinks to himself: I sure hope that guy enjoys that chaos boa with absolutely NO jungle genes in it. I wonder what he's going to breed it to. Hopefully not a jungle while hoping for supers...

--------------------------lol-----------------------------

Ok, so clearly I'm not a good story teller and have no business trying to be an author, but I hope it illustrates the point. LOTS of sales are made and the buyer makes no further inquisition other than price, and they hand over the money.

Even MENTIONING the word jungle is just begging for confusion and VERY unhappy customers. As well begging for a truly negative reputation.

My recommendation would be to step away from using the "jungle" name and when you decide to breed them and sell them, write your own description up and ensure every customer knows those are NOT jungle boas.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

But surely then this is the same as the motley? The CA motley and the Columbian motley are not compatible and you will not get super motleys from breeding a CA to a Columbian because they are different lines. I guess this is why Peter decided to call it the Chaos Boa and not a CA Jungle.

ok, so they were the lower expression individuals.

I have to mention that I vehemently disagree with even alluding to the jungle name when describing pattern mutations. I think it does both mutations a disservice. Since Lars Brandle proved the jungle gene, would it make sense to refer to another aberrant line of animals as Lars Brandle line boas? I think not... Especially since the jungle gene is a pattern and color mutation and from what I can tell of the original "chaos" boa, it is only a pattern mutation. Combining it with the hypo gene did alter the color in some, but is that a product of the chaos gene, or the hypo gene? I think it's from the hypo gene.

Having said all of that, I do wish you good luck with the project! It does seem based on the second set of pictures that there's something different about some of those boas!

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

All I want to say is those boa's are extremely nice and I hope your breeding's with the Chaos line throws some pretty crazy chaotic pattern boa's! I knew exactly when I first read your post what you were trying state and I was aware of the background on the word Chaos with Peter Rice's creation with these breeding trials being done! I think they have a really nice look to them and I wish people would not jump to conclusions when deciding to bash people's post without knowing backgrounds on the persons post. I do understand there are people that need to be very critical and picky with peoples post regarding things being said about morphs, patterns, and genes so all I can say on a positive note is, if we didn't have those peoples opinion and thoughts on here the forums would be very boring 8) LOL AGAIN ALL OF THIS SAID IS JUST MY OPINION!!!!
Take care and thanks for sharing your beautiful boa morphs with us!
JAKE
PS Sorry my spelling and grammar sux's BTW 8)