Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So with all this talk about allelics, such as Moj/Betters/Lessers, I wanted to confirm my understanding about the other codom genetics.

For instance, a Pewter bred to a Normal could still produce Pewters? Because Pastel and Cinnamon(or Black P) are not allelic, it would be possible for a single gamete to contain both genes.

Or, as stated before, both the Cinn and Pastel gene could leave their respective "street".
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Lincoln, NE
0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.1 Normals, 1.0 Thayeri, 0.1 Thayeri X Alterna, 0.1 crazy cat, 1.0 husband

I don't claim to be a genetics wizard nor have I been in that predicament, but I would guess you could only produce normals, pastels or cinny's!

Not true. With a double co-dom, i.e. Pewter, you can get more Pewters when bred to a normal because the Pewter parent would be passing the Cinnamon gene to a random 50% of it's offspring and Pastel to 50% of it's offspring. The outcome would be the same as if you were to breed a Pastel to a Cinnamon.

With the BELs, apparently when the parent is a super Russo, Mojave, Butter or Lesser or any combination of any two, when bred to a normal, the offspring will only be the heterozygous form of whatever created the parent BEL. A BEL(Mojave x Butter) will make half Butters and half Mojaves, no normals or BELs. You can consider Russo, Mojave, Butter and Lesser all different expressions of the same gene.

Pewter can produce pewter, cinny (or black pastel), pastel and normals.

The only exception to this are the mojave/lesser, the fire/het russo, the yellow belly/specter (super stripe). (May be others I don't really know about, like the mystic and phantom).

They all reside on the same loci (street if you want). So a Mojave X Lucy combo is actually like a Super Pastel. That's why all the offspring will be 50% mojave or 50% lucy.

If you breed a Super Stripe to a normal, you will only have YB and Specter, no Super Stripe in the clutch.
And if you breed that super stripe to a YB, you will have Ivory and Super Stripe.
Breed it to a Ivory and you will have all 50% Ivory and 50% Super Stripe.
Breed it to another Super Stripe and will have 25% Ivory, 50% Super Stripe and 25% Super Spector (don't know if there is a name or if that actually exist yet but you get the idea).
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love this world, don't hate it.

The only exception to this are the mojave/lesser, the fire/het russo, the yellow belly/specter (super stripe). (May be others I don't really know about, like the mystic and phantom).

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Fire's and Het Russo's are not allelic. Fires and Sulfers are....but are Fire's and Sulfers like Lessers and Butters....the same morph just different names????

Het Russo's fall under the so called "Platimum Complex" with making the BEL's

Pitoon

"And if you breed that super stripe to a YB, you will have Ivory and Super Stripe."

Sorry but, correct me if I am wrong but if you breed a super stripe to a yellow belly you would actually statistically produce 25% super stripe, 25% ivory, 25% spector, and 25% yellow belly unless there is something funny going on with those 2 genes that I am unaware of, other than the specter and yellow belly genes are co-allelic.
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

You are right !

I just didn't go into full detail in my sentence.

But you are right, a Super Stripe to a Yellow Belle should result :
25% Yellow Belly
25% Spector (or what ever line it is)
25% Ivory
25% Super Stripe
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love this world, don't hate it.

So did something happen with the Fire/Het Russo that makes them alleles of each other???? I would have thought they were NOT alleles of each other that's why I ask. The Russo line is in the Lesser complex and last I knew that has nothing to do with the Fire which is Black Eyed Leucistic and has nothing to do with Fire?? Am I missing something here???

The rest of your post made sense to me but that Fire/Russo part caught my attention right away!

Anthony McCain

Nope you are right, sorry I did a simple mistake.

It should have been :
"The only exception to this are the mojave/lesser/het russo, the yellow belly/specter (super stripe). (May be others I don't really know about, like the mystic and phantom).
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love this world, don't hate it.

You've got it.

Genetic terminology:

Pastel and cinnamon are co-dominant: meaning that they have different appearances in their heterozygous and homozygous forms. They, however are not allelic, meaning they do not occupy the same locus on a chromosome.

Cinnamon and Black pastel are co-dominant AND allelic. They have different phenotypic appearances from one another, but do occupy the same locus on a chromosome. So they can come together with each another same (cinni-cinni or BlPastel-BlPastel) when inherited or with each other (cinni-BlPastel) and have "super" effects.

When a parent passes on these alleles, they can only pass on ONE allele from each locus (position on a chromosome)- each locus is split when forming sperm/egg. So a pewter can pass on one pastel AND one cinni allele to its offspring (they are on different loci) so even when bred to a normal you can make a pewter.

Since cinni and BlPastel occupy the SAME locus they can only pass on one or the other if the parent is a cinni-BlPastel "super". So when bred to a normal you get all cinnies and BlPastels, no normals, no supers.

The same works for BELs. All of the morhps involved are allelic. Mojo, lesser, butter, Russo, etc. occupy the same locus and therefor cannot be inherited together from the super parent.

Hope this helps. And, just for fun- human blood typing works as a multiple allele system also
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Cheers,
Jessica Gibbs
Ball Pythons; Corn Snakes; Green Tree Python; Jungle Carpet Python; Bci; Bcl; Bco
3.0 Crazy Dogs and 2.0 cats
Some Tropical Fish
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