Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I live in Ohio, have always loved Graybands, but have never witnessed any in the wild! Every week, there's at least one "harrassment story" on here! I agree, that this is USA and you should be able to take a pic of a snake on the road and I guess that leaves me w/isn't there any kind of crime going on that these law enforcement people could be spending thier time with? I realize it's the whole point of it, but it seems to me it's almost not worth the agravation!

I guess because it's not their money. It's just a game they are playing on the taxpayers dime.

Someone with oatmeal for brains could tell you that taking snakes off a road system that doesn't even cover 1 tenth of a percent of the total habitat isn't going to put the populations in any risk.

Ok... Look at the situation from an "outsiders" point of view...

1. You are driving or walking around in the middle of nowhere. A place where smuggling is very common, whether it be drugs, weapons or humans.
2. We can be seen stopping suddenly and pulling off the road. Or, making u-turns and pulling off the road.
3. We are enganged in a hobby that gets very little good press. Most of the time herp people are on the news for keeping animals that are illegal or too large or get loose. Very rarely do you hear about people rescuing animals or education.
4. The history between law enforcement and snake hunters/observers is bad.
5. The public opinion and current temperment of the government is to restrict exotics (including snakes) at all costs.

Add these all up and it makes for one negative post a week on the forum...

The truth is we dont hear about all the "good" interactions with LE. We dont hear about all the "bad" ones either.

In closing, this is not a hobby like Golf or Racket Ball. We dont have celebrity PRO-AM collecting events. You dont get to partner with Dave Duchovny and road cruise the river Or Angelina Jolie walking Loma Alta. This is a very unique hobby for a select few who are dedicated to the herping experience and animals. So if you want to come down and herp, please do. Dont let the posts scare you. Know the laws, Know your rights, and reach out to the experienced for guidance.

Good Luck,

StevenX

Problem is, under this new law even the best of the "good" interactions with LE can only be limited to us quietly submitting to an unfair set of regulations. On the whole this can never be be considered good.

Great Post Steve, you make very good points!

~ Mike Russo

Yeah but we got Chad Brown and should work on getting Slash.
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Steve W.

Hilarious Steve.. I think Slash is in.. But, I am not exactly sure how accepted he is by the general population??? ~

~ Mike Russo

I don't know but we've both seen some people at the shows that we could say are not the norm. LOL. Just joking here but have you ever studied the turtle hobbyists? Don't you just get the feeling that if you touch their head they will pull it as far down into their shoulders as they can and slowly turn to see when the coast is clear?
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Steve W.

Dude that was a great post!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

We herpers, especially us hardcore Alterna guys are so used to what we do we feel it is normal. To get a fresh perspective on things I sometimes sit down with others at work and ask them "how would you feel if I told you I go out to the middle of nowhere and look for snakes?" The usual responses are...

1. Why?
2. What For?
3. Do you eat them or Do you skin them?
4. Are you crazy???????

Then after some more explaining about where we go and what we do more questions usually follow...

1. Is it dangerous?
2. How does your wife feel about this?
3. Is it legal to do that?
4. Do you bring any of them home? If so where do you put them?
5. Where exactly are they on the road?

To stress my point, this is a VERY UNIQUE HOBBY! We dont make up that many people. I bet that more people are signed up at the Golf Club down the road from me in Plano than in our whole hobby. (I am having a hard time expressing my thoughts here)
If you make a 1000 phone calls to your Representatives and Senators, please be polite, positive and energetic. Wish for the best, but dont expect miracles. There are just not enough of us... just not enough money. We will always be pulled over while out West due to the reasons I listed in my previous post. No way around it. It is just going to happen. We are always going to be fighting a battle due to the nature of our hobby...

Steve, I 100% agree with what your saying and I know that our numbers will never be up there with cats and dogs.. But, the statistics below show that reptiles are becoming much more popular houshold pets across the USA (almost equal to pet birds according to this study). But, I have owned birds in the past and no one EVER asked me why i kept a bird?? And, I have heard the laundry list of questions that all of you guys have heard from non herp people about keeping/breeding snakes. Regardless of how many reptile keepers there are out there, I really don't think herpers will ever be totally understood by the general population..

~ Mike Russo

Industry Statistics & TrendsET OWNERSHIP

According to the 2009/2010 National Pet Owners Survey, 62% of U.S. households own a pet, which equates to 71.4 millions homes

In 1988, the first year the survey was conducted, 56% of U.S. households owned a pet as compared to 62% in 2008

Breakdown of pet ownership in the U.S. according to the 2009-2010 National Pet Owners Survey

Number of U.S. Households that Own a Pet (millions)

Bird 5.3
Cat 38.2
Dog 45.6
Equine 3.9
Freshwater Fish 13.3
Saltwater Fish 0.7
Reptile 4.7
Small Animal 5.3

Total Number of Pets Owned in the U.S. (millions)

Bird 15.0
Cat 93.6
Dog 77.5
Equine 13.3
Freshwater Fish 171.7
Saltwater Fish 11.2
Reptile 13.6
Small Animal 15.9

I have to say, the few times I've had issues it hasn't been with wildlife agents. it's been normal LEOs and border patrol--and they didn't give a damn about snakes, they just couldn't credit that I'd be out that time of night for snakes...thought there had to be drugs or coyote work involved.

I agree but maybe I need to explain a little bit. The roadban is unjust and it serves no conservation purpose and as written, no safety purpose. It was enacted,IMHO, purely for the gratification of a few powerful elements within TPWD.
Therefore there can be no such thing as a "good" encounter with these wardens, regarding this law. No disrespect intended to the wardens but they are enforcing an unjust law.
The best we can legally do on the roads at this time is submit to the law by not collecting. When we encounter a warden who shows us a superficial respect, in that they simply refrain from violating our civil rights, and we show the same superficial respect back, in that we merely obey an unjust law, we have not won. Actually the element within TPWD who doesn't care about our ability to reasonably and fairly share in the use the natural resources has won. It is not a "good" encounter. The best it is is a submission to an unjust law. If we are to remain legal we must do this but by mo means do I consider this a "good" thing. Any and all encounters based on this unfair law should spur us to continue to fight it. We should not get a false warm and fuzzy feeling just because a warden treats us with a modicum of respect.

This should make people MAD. I want folks to get mad and get a fire burning under their ass. I don't want folks to sit on their ass just because this law can't be enforced. IT NEEDS TO GO AWAY and for that to happen we need action from everyone.

I want to get these people pissed off like I'm pissed off.

If everyone works with their Representatives and Senators this can get done. Now is re-election campaign time. I have a date next Monday night to support one of our biggest supporters. You folks need to do the same.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

In reference to Aaron, i think any encounter with LE when you are treated honestly, justly and with integrity to be a positive experience. Regardless if you agree with the laws they enforce or not.

In reference to Joe... I understand why you are angry and I understand why you want everyone else to be angry... However I cant be angry all the time at everything.

best wishes,
stevenx

>>However I cant be angry all the time at everything.

Nor should you be, but there's more than enough apathy here to make someone angry.

Actually I don't care if folks get angry or not, as long as they get motivated.

what does it take to get you motivated Steve?
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

However I cant be angry all the time at everything.

best wishes,
stevenx

Sure you can. Just think about bad things. LOL
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Steve W.