Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all,

This was a response I gave to a woman that called my 3 month old snakes "hand puppets of satan" and tried to use the bible in defense of her statement. Let me know what you think. Also, my female accepted food again yesterday. Thanks for all the suggestions.

"I warn you never use bible verses in an argument. With that said here is my response. Maybe you will read and maybe you will not. That does not matter because I do not care what you say because I am not blinded by anything you or people like you say.

Part One:
Whether you take the verses figuratively or literally shouldn't affect the primary question here. Keep in mind while reading this that no verse stands alone. The chapter and verse structure was not part of the original writings. You have to keep everything in context with other verses. The words that have been translated as adder, viper, asp, etc., are not specific translations. Rather, the English terms are general translations, and do not directly apply as species descriptions. For example, the Greek word "ophis" may refer to snakes in general, or may in certain verses specifically apply to a venomous snake."

"Part Two:
Does the Bible state that snakes are evil? Nope. If you glance through the verses, you'll never find any place where snakes are specifically called evil critters. Rather, the snake is used as a symbol for everything from Satan to alcohol, from lying to wisdom. Quite a range of ideas. Symbolism is used to make it easier to understand something, and does not denote inherent characteristics. For example, the dove is used as a symbol for the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, but there's nothing particularly holy about a bird. At different times, the lion is used positively ("Lion of Judah" and negatively (Satan going about like a "roaring lion". Beyond the sundry references to snakes is a major thematic symbolism stretching through the scriptures."

"Part Three:
In Genesis, after Satan shows up in the guise of a reptile, the snake is given a specific representative purpose: the effects of sin. Just as the snake was "separated" from its prior position (considered an enemy of man, the Hebrew expression "eating dust" being a reference to being made low), so man was separated from his prior relationship with God. This separation is not necessarily permanent, though. Symbolically, we see a representation of a metal serpent on a pole used to save Israel in the desert, foreshadowing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The Israelites who gazed on the brass serpent were saved from snake-bite; anyone who accepts Christ's death as the sacrificial payment for the sin that separates them from God, committing to following Christ, enters a direct and personal relationship with God himself."

"In Conclusion:
We see the inclusion of the snake in the future physical kingdom of God, restoring its position in nature. Just as the serpent is restored, so is man's relationship to God eternally restored, for those who purpose to become disciples of Christ. So, in effect, the snake is far from being an evil outcast in Biblical theology. It is, rather, a powerful representation of the primary theme in Christianity. I do not take credit for all of this. I had help from my brother and the Herpetological society. I regret to have to show you the error in your words but I feel it is my duty to defend any creature misunderstood because of human ignorance to the big picture."
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Thomas M. Marcy
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Madison, AL
Computer Scientist
Hognose Enthusiast

Congrats on your female eating.

In regards to the biblical ignorance, you just can't argue with people who believe what they want to believe.

Case in point, I have a neighbor who won't dial my phone number, even in times of an emergency because it ends in 666, but she's come over willingly to help several times when I needed help with one of my snakes. Somehow the symbol of evil is not consistent with her as is with many other religious people as well.

It is said in the bible that God created all animals on the Earth - Genesis Ch.1 V.26 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good." So, if God made every living animal and it was good in his eyes, then when did the snake become evil? Even Ch.3 V.1 reinstates the fact that God created the serpent "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made." Satan could have used any animal as a guise but chose the serpent because of it's stealth. The bottom line is, God created all animals according to Genesis, not Satan.

Another interesting tidbit that also comes from Genesis is the story about Noah's Ark. Lets examine Ch.7 V.7-9:

"7. And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

8. Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

9. There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."

Hm, looks to me like Noah was commanded to save every animal including those that "creepeth upon the earth". Sounds like snakes were included in that as well. If they were evil, then they would have been left behind to be wiped out by the great flood along with all the wicked people now wouldn't they? Obviously, they were not evil at all and that they were wanted to be saved by Noah so that they would reintroduced after the flood.

And that's just what I found by glancing through a couple of things I remembered. Sad thing is, I'm not even religious, I'm a happy agnostic that is of an open mind and objective. I've probably read more of the bible than most religious people, or at least I believe to understand parts of it it better than some.

One thing that always got me with most Christian people is they always associate Satanists with animal sacrifices and yet, more animals were sacrificed to God and often times commanded by God to do so as part of a religious offering to God. I don't think I've read in the bible where an animal was every sacrificed in the name of Satan, but if there is a reference depicting such an act, I'd love to see it.

The bottom line is, people are going to believe whatever nonsense they want to believe and they are going to associate and cement it with whatever makes them feel comfortable. While they might be ignorant in making such claims, you might actually be foolish in your endeavors towards trying to make them believe otherwise. In my experiences dealing with such people, I have found that only those that have an open mind and want to learn something will listen to what you have to say, but the others will stand steadfast in their beliefs and what you have to say to contradict their beliefs might actually make those ignorant beliefs even stronger just by sake of needing something to hold on to. In other words, you are wasting your time trying to educate the "converted".

For fun though, you might want to bring up to that particular person that they might not ever want to enter a hospital again as it probably is a temple of Satan or have anything to do with doctors, what with the medical symbol of the caduceus and all.

You can always live by one of my favorite motto's "I refuse to have a battle of the wits with an unarmed person."

Good luck with your debate! Trust me, I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses knock on my door.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Yeah,

I know I can never win against people who are blind to logic and reasonable thought. I just like to entertain myself some times and enjoy a small victory by making them stop talking about it around me. I have to deal with it almost every day in AL. People at work like to jump into my conversations when they hear that I have snakes, and add their two cents in about how they can't believe that we like snakes and the thought of snakes just makes them want to stomp on their head. I have learned to just let it go.(yoga helps)

My girlfriend on the other hand does not yet posses the patience I have gained over the years (having to listen to people like that) since she is new to snakes but has gotten very attached to them. She defends them like they are her babies.

In happy news I will be taking some more pictures soon(now that the female has forsaken her down mood) and will post them later this weekend.

Thanks for your comments,
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Thomas M. Marcy
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Madison, AL
Computer Scientist
Hognose Enthusiast