Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

the T+ genetics aren't fully understood now.

Here is the result of some breedins:

T+ x amel: 50% T+ and 50% amel
T+ x het amel: 25% T+ and 25% amel and 50% wildtype.

I think T+ and amel are sharing the same locus while amel is recessive to the T+ gene. The T+ gene is dominant over amel but ressive to wildtype.

This would mean that all amels are homozygote het nothing and the wildtype animals are 100% het for either T+ or amel. Both, amel and T+ do have the same chance in those animals.

But who knows what secret is really inside this box?

Gerrit

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

That picture sure looks like a Hypo snake to me, in comparison to the T Amel Sinaloans I have seen...
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
2-4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Sinaloan
2.4 Het Albino Sinaloan

Hi,

which and where have you seen some of them? You mean these are different?

Gerrit

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

That snake is just gorgeous! Great Photography as well! Thanx for sharing!!

Compared to the hatchlings i've seen from Shannon Brown that one appears darker! Is it possiblie that this T is more Hypo rather than Amel?

What occurs here seems similar to what happens with:

"Ultra" (Hypo) x Amel = Ultramel (In Corn Snakes)

"Peanut Butter" (Hypo) x Amel = "Jelly" (In Floridana/Brooksi)

Have you guys done T X T to see what the results are?

Hopefully this picture posts on here! This is Shannon Browns T Sinaloan Male, which looks quite a bit different than your picture - which looks like a Hypo Pueblan coloration in my opinion. I am no expert, and do not claim any expertise!

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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
2-4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Sinaloan
2.4 Het Albino Sinaloan

LOL, yeah, that is the brother of my adult male.
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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

So you can see what I mean by the difference, and the Hypo look of the snake you pictured.
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
2-4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Sinaloan
2.4 Het Albino Sinaloan

Nope, both animals and all of Shannon's do have the same genetics.
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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

OK, I thought that Shannon's were Sinaloans and not Nelsons...thus my confusion.
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Scott MacLeod
2.6 Snow Hondurans
2-4 Aberrant Hondurans
1.2 Aberrant Hypo Hondurans
0.1 Aberrant Hybino Honduran
1.3 Extreme Hypo VP
1.1 Tricolor Hypo VP
1.1 Albino Striped Sinaloan
2.7 Striped Sinaloan
2.4 Het Albino Sinaloan

I think what you are seeing is the difference between hatchling and adult!

Dave
DNS Reptiles

Yeah, either that, or the photo itself just looks totally different for whatever reason. Because everyone knows that Shannon has the exact same line of T-positive nelsoni that Gerrit does without question.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

They are the same thing.Its just the flash or lighting.

L8r

I think that all T 's are different. Some are darker then others but all can hatch from the same clutch. Don

Hope to see you produce a pile of these in 2010!!!

Hey Gerrit,

I think you are perfectly right, so you Tplus is also het albino right?

I am a little curious if there will be a difference between a homozygous Tplus and a double het Tplus/amel. Given that I also think that animal is a little darker than the ones we have seen from shannon, but thats just an idle thought

Either way these are super cool, and kinda of like ultra in cornsnakes. Oh, god help us all if sinaloans turn into corns!

Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

First of all, that's a stunning photograph of a stunning snake. Nice work!

Second, it would be useful if you included the gender distribution among the various percentages you observed and reported in your breeding results.

thanks.
terry

There are both genders of all. Bit more males on the amels but in total nearly 50%.
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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

That's some very interesting results Gerrit!,....thanks for sharing that info, buddy!

Hope things are going well with all your animal's across the "pond"!

I'm expecting some killer ghost's any day now!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Congrats on figuring out the genetics. Those are gorgeous animals you produced there.

Dave
DNS Reptiles

lets slow down here Dave.Nobody has figured out the genetics of them yet from a few breedings.Lets not get the cart in front of the horse.I had pretty much the same results this year as Gerrit but it still leaves the same questions.
Are the amels that are produced het for the t ???
Are the normals that are produced double hets?(amel and t )
is every single visual t het amel even it was produced from a het breeding?
What was figured out??????????????

As far as I know nobody has tried breeding a t to a wild type that was from a t clutch or to.I also haven't heard of anybody trying to breed a couple of the amels together to see if they are hets or not.

I tend to think that every single visual t is already a amel its just being masked by the t .I don't think we just got lucky and our two males are "het" amel.I say they are amel.
But, only time will tel and I think there are many questions that will be answered in the next couple years.

L8r

But why would a simple breeding from T to unrelated amel bring the 50% T's?
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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

I guess its just co-dom on the amel level (allele) or whatever.Thats why I think they are already amels to start with.I think if you could strip a layer back you would have just a plain amel.The fact that you get about 50% visual t's make since in this case.Its like the weird cornsnake gene with the ultra or the jelly gene on the brooksi.If it is then there are NO hets at all.Its either visual or its amel or its het amel ONLY.
Just my thought process but we really don't know yet and thats part of the fun.

L8r

So what would I get if I pair T with wildtype het nothing?
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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

I would say that you would get all normals that are 100% het amel and thats it.But,I don't know for sure thats just what I think.

L8r

"the T genetics aren't fully understood now. "

Dave

Sorry, I misread Gerrits original post. I thought he said the T genetics are fully understood now.

Has anyone done a T to a normal breeding? What were the rseults of that. Didn't you do that this year, Shannon?

Dave

Nope, I tried my t to a splotched female and that would be the same as a normal cause hse had no amel genes in her but she just laid two clutches of slugs.All the other females I used where amel or het amel.

L8r

That sort of hit the skids on a lot there didn't it??...geesh!

That would have been one of the big keys to knowing a bunch more about it too.

Oh well, always next year..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"