Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need advice for buying chams from africa. I have a guy who will ship but I would like to get others opinions who have done it. I am afraid the survival rate for shipping so far will be high.
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http://briefcase.yahoo.com/alanvines2002
2.5 Jacksonii Xantholophus (two red phase fem}
35 Jacksonii Xantholophus neonates
0.0.2 Phelsuma M. Grandis
2.3 Anolis C. with 3 neonates
1 neonate texas blue spiny

Alan,

First off you can not just order from Africa. It is not like ordering from within the US. You must be Licensed to import from USFW, you will have to go through the entire Import process which entails, having your License($50),placing the order($?? most exporters have a minimum order around $1500US), your supplier obtaining CITES($approx. $50), the animals being shipped to a designated port of Entry by the USFW with Air Cargo($400 minimum), You will need a broker to handle the shipment(approx. $200), you will need to have USFW inspect the shipment($55-$115), and depending on where you are you will have to have the freight forwarded to your closest airport($200+). Importation is not like ordering from a regular seller in the US and having the shipment sent to your door. If the legal process is not followed the importer can face $100,000 fine and 10 years in jail.
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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
Your source for Quality Import and Captive Born
Chameleons from around the World

Please read our entire terms for purchase on our website
http://www.rkreptiles.com

We accept online credit card payments through PAYPAL
Please click below to make a payment.
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=sales@rkreptiles.com

geez that sucks....well alan just see if the kammers get theirs from africa(don't think so but they get others) all you can do is ask.

And just order from Rob? Sure, if you order directly from an importer(or contract one out and order an entire shipement), you animals will be dirt cheap, but the other expenses are just not worth the risk. A friend of mine used to order shipments direct(through an importer), so while he didn't have to pay for all the expenses individually, the prices of the animals were marked up to cover the importer's expenses.

I think, for comparisons sake, it would be like this...
Jimbo imports chameleons, but not rat-lizards. You want rat-lizards, but not in quantities that would make going through the hassle worthwhile. so, you work it out with jimbo. Jimbo has all the paperwork and fee paid for his shipment of madagascaran chameleons. He also orders a shipment of madagascarian rat-lizards(Rattusaurus madagascareneis)and pays the respective fees and shipping costs. So, while Jimbo only pays $5 or $10 per Rat lizard ordered, he charges you $20-$30 each. this covers his price on the cost of the rat-lizards, as well as the shipping and USFWS and importations B.S....

Rat lizards typically go for $100 , so it sounds like a bargain, right? Well....therein lies the problem. Let's say you ordered 50 Rat lizards at $20 each. You pay Jimbo $1000 for the shipment. They come in, but only 20 of them are alive. You just paid $50 per rat lizard, and you have no idea if the rest will survive.

My friend got in several shipments of chameleons from aFrica and Madagascar. He paid a very low price for them, but with zero gaurentee--no live gaurenttee. Many times, most of the animals were dead or sick.
BAck in the 90's so many animals were being shipped, the exporters didn't care what they shipped, just that they were being shipped. The malagasy were so scared of chameleons, that the large ones(parsonii and pardalis, ousteleit and verrucosus) were "collected" by being whacked out of trees with sticks!!! Many of the chameleons he got had broken jaws and or skin riped off the jaws(this was often mis-identified at bite marks and fighting evidence) He had to do some skin grafts to save some of the bigger ones.

I remember he ordered a few dozen jhonstoni, all but one died. Tough luck.

You can do it, if money is not an issue, and if you have enough space to put large enough quantities, but it's not something you would want to do unless you needed a ton of animals, or unless you were in the buisness.

there's a reason importers that will garantee live--let alone HEALTHY- arrival charge what they do on an animal that "costs" them much less.

Hey, if you have some extra cash, and another greenhouse to spare, give it a try.
I probably would if I had the cash and space. And I could hide it from my wife...
Eric

thank you Eric, exactly the information I was looking for, as always. Rob who? At RK reptiles?
>>And just order from Rob? Sure, if you order directly from an importer(or contract one out and order an entire shipement), you animals will be dirt cheap, but the other expenses are just not worth the risk. A friend of mine used to order shipments direct(through an importer), so while he didn't have to pay for all the expenses individually, the prices of the animals were marked up to cover the importer's expenses.
>>
>>I think, for comparisons sake, it would be like this...
>>Jimbo imports chameleons, but not rat-lizards. You want rat-lizards, but not in quantities that would make going through the hassle worthwhile. so, you work it out with jimbo. Jimbo has all the paperwork and fee paid for his shipment of madagascaran chameleons. He also orders a shipment of madagascarian rat-lizards(Rattusaurus madagascareneis)and pays the respective fees and shipping costs. So, while Jimbo only pays $5 or $10 per Rat lizard ordered, he charges you $20-$30 each. this covers his price on the cost of the rat-lizards, as well as the shipping and USFWS and importations B.S....
>>
>>Rat lizards typically go for $100 , so it sounds like a bargain, right? Well....therein lies the problem. Let's say you ordered 50 Rat lizards at $20 each. You pay Jimbo $1000 for the shipment. They come in, but only 20 of them are alive. You just paid $50 per rat lizard, and you have no idea if the rest will survive.
>>
>>My friend got in several shipments of chameleons from aFrica and Madagascar. He paid a very low price for them, but with zero gaurentee--no live gaurenttee. Many times, most of the animals were dead or sick.
>>BAck in the 90's so many animals were being shipped, the exporters didn't care what they shipped, just that they were being shipped. The malagasy were so scared of chameleons, that the large ones(parsonii and pardalis, ousteleit and verrucosus) were "collected" by being whacked out of trees with sticks!!! Many of the chameleons he got had broken jaws and or skin riped off the jaws(this was often mis-identified at bite marks and fighting evidence) He had to do some skin grafts to save some of the bigger ones.
>>
>>I remember he ordered a few dozen jhonstoni, all but one died. Tough luck.
>>
>>You can do it, if money is not an issue, and if you have enough space to put large enough quantities, but it's not something you would want to do unless you needed a ton of animals, or unless you were in the buisness.
>>
>>there's a reason importers that will garantee live--let alone HEALTHY- arrival charge what they do on an animal that "costs" them much less.
>>
>>Hey, if you have some extra cash, and another greenhouse to spare, give it a try.
>>I probably would if I had the cash and space. And I could hide it from my wife...
>>Eric
-----
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/alanvines2002
2.5 Jacksonii Xantholophus (two red phase fem}
35 Jacksonii Xantholophus neonates
0.0.2 Phelsuma M. Grandis
2.3 Anolis C. with 3 neonates
1 neonate texas blue spiny

Yes I believe he was referring to me Alan. I am an importer of Chameleons from many countries as well as a breeder of different species. If you have any questions please let me know.
-----
Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
Your source for Quality Import and Captive Born
Chameleons from around the World

Please read our entire terms for purchase on our website
http://www.rkreptiles.com

We accept online credit card payments through PAYPAL
Please click below to make a payment.
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=sales@rkreptiles.com