Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Piney, you asked for these
Got this pair from Suffolkselects at the Concord/Charlotte NC show this weekend, they are from Vendeventer stock, via a pair sold to Suffolk which was bred by Dave Boyle. They are ravenous beasts feeding wise for sure and very active when they want to be- but have yet to his or threaten to bite. These are brother and sister.

the first 3 pics are of the female who has a lighter patterned neck, and the last 2 are the male.

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1.0 Boa- Hogg Island
0.1 Bull- Northern
1.0 Bull- TX Red
0.1 Bull- KS Yellow
1.1 Bulls- Red X Yellow
1.0 Bull- Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
1.1 Fox Snakes- Western
1.1 Kings- Black Easterns (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY
1.2 Kings- Coastal CA
1.1 Kings- NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.)
1.1 Kings- Gray Banded 'Blair's'
1.1 Kings- Speckled, Harris Co. TX
1.1 Pines- Carolina Northerns (M from NC, F from SC)
1.1 Pines- Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock)
1.2 Pythons- Ball
1.1 Ratsnakes- Black, Henderson Co. NC

Ok looks like I could not fit any pics of the male on the first post so on this post all 3 of these are of the male.

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1.0 Boa- Hogg Island
0.1 Bull- Northern
1.0 Bull- TX Red
0.1 Bull- KS Yellow
1.1 Bulls- Red X Yellow
1.0 Bull- Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
1.1 Fox Snakes- Western
1.1 Kings- Black Easterns (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY
1.2 Kings- Coastal CA
1.1 Kings- NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.)
1.1 Kings- Gray Banded 'Blair's'
1.1 Kings- Speckled, Harris Co. TX
1.1 Pines- Carolina Northerns (M from NC, F from SC)
1.1 Pines- Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock)
1.2 Pythons- Ball
1.1 Ratsnakes- Black, Henderson Co. NC

OS,
Thanks for the pix....they sure do have nice clean lines to them. I wish you the best with them. Are you planning on breeding them down the road?
Cheers,
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

Heck yeah I plan to breed them!
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1.0 Boa- Hogg Island
0.1 Bull- Northern
1.0 Bull- TX Red
0.1 Bull- KS Yellow
1.1 Bulls- Red X Yellow
1.0 Bull- Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
1.1 Fox Snakes- Western
1.1 Kings- Black Easterns (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY
1.2 Kings- Coastal CA
1.1 Kings- NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.)
1.1 Kings- Gray Banded 'Blair's'
1.1 Kings- Speckled, Harris Co. TX
1.1 Pines- Carolina Northerns (M from NC, F from SC)
1.1 Pines- Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock)
1.2 Pythons- Ball
1.1 Ratsnakes- Black, Henderson Co. NC

That's disgusting!!! Let them breed each other. What the heck is this hobby coming to.

Sick, Sick, Sick

Ohhh you herp folks ugggghhhhh... well its not the first time Ive heard that joke... my friends say that to when I speak that way... lol
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1.0 Boa- Hogg Island
0.1 Bull- Northern
1.0 Bull- TX Red
0.1 Bull- KS Yellow
1.1 Bulls- Red X Yellow
1.0 Bull- Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
1.1 Fox Snakes- Western
1.1 Kings- Black Easterns (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY
1.2 Kings- Coastal CA
1.1 Kings- NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.)
1.1 Kings- Gray Banded 'Blair's'
1.1 Kings- Speckled, Harris Co. TX
1.1 Pines- Carolina Northerns (M from NC, F from SC)
1.1 Pines- Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock)
1.2 Pythons- Ball
1.1 Ratsnakes- Black, Henderson Co. NC

Yeah, I have had it come back to me many times as well. Felt like giving a little of it back. Actually, I wanted to see how the marquee would work with wink. Messed with my eyes. Should have used the smile.

Ruthveni you sayi!!

I need more pines. Have way to much free time.

LOL!!!!
Rich knows how I feel about genetic diversity. IMHO breeding two TRUE/PURE animals from varying localities gives you a better overall representation of the species. Inbreeding and/or linebreeding gives you specific traits you wish to expose etc....Myself, I like snakes that show a good rounded out representation of what the species looks like on average, and that's what both of my breeding programs focus on. This year I was swayed by peer pressure to play with inbreeding my Ginter line northerns....next season I have a red male for that red female...so linebreeding will done to satisfy some desire for the old-school-red-phase northerns of years past.
My advice to you, OS, is to get another pair and switch partners for better results.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth
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--Brian Scott

i would have to say that Breeding snakes from different localities" is way less appealing to me and I must argue would not (IMHO) produce "better representatives of the species across it's given range". Breeding unrelated animals from a given locality, when available, is a much better way to achieve the goals you are looking for while still maintaining population level genetic integrity.

Are bull snakes just bullsnakes? or are Montana bulls different than Kankakee bulls? or Iowa Bulls? SE texas bulls? If you found a bull in the western part of OK is that the same animal as ones found in the eastern part of the state? Does it really matter? My guess is that the answer to the last question is variable depending on who you talk to and what that given person/keeper' attitudes and needs are regarding population biology and taxonomic specifics.........

I had a long conversation with a P.m.lodingi biologist last week and he had some really interesting information regarding their findings on lodingi ranges, and intergration zones/sympatry with mugitus......

He will publish sometime soon so look for that paper as it address these sorts of ideas......

I agree John...I have some corn snakes from the mountains of western NC and some from central Fl...and it is unbelievable the difference in requrements. The NC mountain corns are much thicker at birth, prefer much cooler temperatures, prefer pinkies and will not take lizards at all. They also seem to consistently lay around 10 eggs or less, while the Florida corns will do 20 twice a year.

....because many Pits are so variable throughout their ranges, especially Bullsnakes, this to me is what makes locality breeding so interesting. For example,as discussed sometime ago, west TX Pituophis are quite variable and the taxonomic status of the various local populations are rather dubious due the apparent large zone of intergradation betwwen sayi and affinis. To me some of the most interesting looking animals of many species comes from the intergrade zones. In my own county for example, I've found an interesting population of eastern kings that are close to an intergade zone that are very unusual in appearance. The study on Balck Pines and their relationship with S. Pines should be an interesting one. It would be interesting to see a simliar study on N. Pines and S. Pines. Getting back to La Pines though, if one looks through the various forums, this one and other field herping ones, you will see La Pines from the wild that are quit variable from various parts of their range or even within a specific locale, so I think it would be difficult for someone to say this La Pine looks suspecious because it doesn't look "right". Well...what does "right" look like? That is even a difficult question to answer for the experts concerning La Pines.

Point taken.

I don't know...I think you ought to let Spider breed his LA pines...they might look good with eye lids and a beard!!! :>

Actually, I spoke with Carl again at suffolkselects, and he got some more LAs from Dave Boyle, and if they breed this spring, Carl is happy to work a trade with one of the animals I got from him for one of the other pair's progeny, so my pair will then be unrelated. Im really happy with my experience with suffolkselcts!
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1.0 Boa- Hogg Island
0.1 Bull- Northern
1.0 Bull- TX Red
0.1 Bull- KS Yellow
1.1 Bulls- Red X Yellow
1.0 Bull- Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
1.0 Corn Snake (Okeetee?)
1.1 Fox Snakes- Western
1.1 Kings- Black Easterns (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY
1.2 Kings- Coastal CA
1.1 Kings- NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.)
1.1 Kings- Gray Banded 'Blair's'
1.1 Kings- Speckled, Harris Co. TX
1.1 Pines- Carolina Northerns (M from NC, F from SC)
1.1 Pines- Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock)
1.1 Pythons- Ball
1.1 Ratsnakes- Black, Henderson Co. NC