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I bred my 2 albino black rats together and ended up with a few surprises. The first surprise was I ended up with hets as well as albinos. Photos taken under same lighting.

Here is the final surprise, even though it was dead, look at the potential!

Sorry for the large photos.
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Shane@SSuperiorSSerpents.com
http://www.ssuperiorsserpents.com/

The second photo looks like a lavender albino. Could you post some pics of the adults?

Take care,
Jeff

Here they are. The mother has since died. She was pretty old at the time of breeding. I had already said this would be her last breeding. It was the first time with this male.

The female is the darker one.
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Shane@SSuperiorSSerpents.com
http://www.ssuperiorsserpents.com/

hmm, that male looks EXACTLY like a "bubblegum" Ratsnake. A composite of amel Black x Everglades x Yellow Rat. Bill Love originated these in the very early 90's.

Keep in mind, these are extremely variable in coloration too.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

He was THAT good he killed her

Wow!,...that IS pretty weird that you got hets in the mix too.

Too bad that bottom one didn't survive!, that thing is INSANE!!

Who knows if the pattern would have been the same though in a living individual. It could have ended up looking like that too though, but no way of ever knowing.
All sorts of stuff can go wrong and cause freakish anomalies to the embryo that we don't understand. But that is extremely cool nonetheless!

BTW, Nice albinos!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I was thinking the same thing Doug. It seems that a lot of times the really bizarrely patterned ones are the ones that are dead in egg. Almost like whatever caused them to die is somehow linked to the pattern. If that makes sense.

Yes, that's right Mike. Now I'm not saying that is necessarily the case with this particular one, but I do know that many "lethal" genes can coincide with other anomalies many times.

But in any case, that sure was an interesting pattern that one displayed for sure!, no matter what.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Your breeder female isn't an albino - she has dark eyes.

It does not look like your breeder male is a "pure" Black Rat Snake - the pattern isn't right.

This may explain the odd-looking offspring that were produced.

In addition, pattern in one of the last things to develop in the egg. I've seen a lot of nearly full-term snakes with odd patterns, so maybe it wasn't fully developed yet.

Tim

Third Eye

Here is a photo:

Her eyes are dark, dark red. His are light red.
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Shane@SSuperiorSSerpents.com
http://www.ssuperiorsserpents.com/

Okay, now see the distinct squarish blotches on the one's Tim posted?, that is the typical pattern that underlies all amel Black Rats, as well as what they look like as juveniles. The pattern of your male is a definite "Bubblegum" Rat pattern derived from the three subspecies I previously mentioned.

See what I mean?

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I do see that. If the female is not albino, what exactly is she? She has red eyes, just ruby red.
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Shane@SSuperiorSSerpents.com
http://www.ssuperiorsserpents.com/

She IS an albino, but I don't think she is a T-negative like most others. I think she is a "lavender" form.

Her darker ruby-red eyes, and her caramel/chocolate colored pattern outline is typical of lavender albinos(t-positive).

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

the yellow labials aren't a dead giveaway?
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Todd Hughes

Do you mean a dead giveaway that Yellow Rat lineage is in there too, and not all genuine Black Rat?,....I'd certainly say so, and maybe even Texas Rat as well, who really knows. I do know there is a supposed albino lavender form of Texas Rat, but I really don't know exactly how, or where it originated from, or even if it is "all" lindheimeri or not. Too many things get bred to all sorts of different things now to keep track of it all..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

That female's eyes look almost black in the first pic. At any rate, it's probably a lavender. Which whould indicate that it wasn't an amel-to-amel breeding (at least not of the same strain). I'm not sure if lavender is considered amel or t-positive, or hypo - or if anyone knows for sure.

But the bottom line is that you shouldn't have expected all amel babies of the same strain as a result of that pairing.

Sometimes kooky-patterned babies do happen - here is an unusual looking product of the adult pair that I posted.

Tim

That's an exceptional looking youngster there Tim!, very cool.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I was going with yellow rat, but who knows? I would assume a pure black rat to have all white labials surrounded by black or dark gray, but? In an albino, I would expect to see pink, not yellow. There are some traits that you just can't hide, IMO.
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Todd Hughes

I certainly agree with all that too Todd.

later!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

are rare in the hobby and lool nothing AT ALL like albino black rats or bubblegum rats or the two combined.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

>>are rare in the hobby and lool nothing AT ALL like albino black rats or bubblegum rats or the two combined.
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>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

also what is called lavender black rats is not even close to the look of a Lavender Texas Rats....colors are totally different looking. I would not think the genes are compatible.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

I agree with ALL that you said 100 percent. I was only making a point of who can be really sure as to exactly what percentage of what is involved there, that was all I was trying to convey.

Absolutely no doubt the Lavender Texas is much rarer and totally different looking...

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I have a nice sub adult male and have never seen anything like him and have no pic's worth posting that can accurately convey his coloration...also I have not seen them at any reptile shows or for sale online either....very rare to see them offered for sale....mine came from byrond who got it from Bell I believe...it was a highly aggressive poor feeding neonate which is why I think it was sold...a few months with me and he eats dead off the paper and "tolerates" being handled....but even what he considers the slightest provocation on my part sends him into defensive mode. His head is slate grey and the oranges and greens and other colors he displays are not even explainable..you would have to see him in person to believe it. I see albino and lavender black rats all the time at shows and bubblegum's and mixes as well. I do not think the Lavender Texas has been bred into either line due to their scarce availability...but I have been hard pressed to get any info on the actual lineage except that Mike (or Mark ?) Bell is where they are coming from. I have a lone male and was considering breeding him to my female Lucy Texas Rat but changed my mind even though I think they are both Texas Rats I didn't want to breed the possibility of the "bug eyed" anomaly into the Lavender Texas Rat lineage, so I will have to wait patiently for a female.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

can't even describe his head acurately LMAO
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

I know what ya mean..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I have seen a "few" others post theirs and they didn't get the color quite right either, so I figure why even post a pick that doesn't even come close to accurately displaying the snake in question, it's absurd actually IMHO. It's supposed to be...what u see is what u get...so I don't even bother LOL.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Yes, I get aggravated ALL the time with trying to convey the true colors of many of my snakes too. Every single lighting condition, as well as what setting the camera is on will give drastically different results.

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about.

This is of an "extreme" hypo Honduran that looks like comparing night to day in each pic here. This is the very same animal in different lighting conditions with different camera light settings.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

That looks like a beautiful snake...but what does it actually look like ? LOL
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Thanks!,...

It's true color is actually about exactly between those two pics maybe a tad more towards the bottom pic. A truly KILLER example of an extreme too. They don't get much lighter silvery/gray than this one I just produced.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

That one you describe sounds VERY cool indeed!, I'd like to see some good accurate pics whenever you can get around to it.

Also, I think that is a very wise move on your part to wait for another one that becomes available, and not take a chance on the "bug-eyed" trait getting involved in there.

BTW, that is indeed Mark Bell, and not the other "Mike" Bell that you were talking about.

again, I look forward to those pics whenever you get around to it, that animal sounds very interesting.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

thanks for the Mark bell clarification....
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

.
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"