Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Guys, Check out this nice looking Hypo Splendida! This one is on display at the AZ Sonoran Desert Museum. Take Care Martin

don't know if it's the lighting but that snake looks more Lavender than Hypo... one may want to look into that!

Yeah, it seems like either that's WAY more hypo looking than other's I've seen, and is a more "extreme" form, or it's a lavender t-plus albino. Either way that is one COOL snake!

Like you mentioned Zenny, and I agree, certain lighting conditions can make some animals color schemes look totally different than they actually are sometimes.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

defenetly looks lavender albino and not hypo. But I have found most zoos and herpetologists call anything light a hypo unless it is a red eye T negative albino.

In herpetoculture we differentiate between hypo and lavender albino. Those guys at the zoo just don't want to get caught up with different possibilities. So they call it hypomelanistic. The general public don't care unless it had red eyes. Then people would question it.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Exactly,....Zoo's many times call something whatever the public can best relate to. Many years ago I was at the Dallas zoo(I think) and there was a sign in front of the turtle enclosure that read.."albino green turtle". This turtle was very obviously a leucistic turtle as it had light yellowish skin and shell with black eyes. The public can relate much easier to an "albino" animal, as opposed to a leucistic one,....they would all be looking at each other saying...."huh??, what the heck does leucistic mean Fred??"..LOL!

I found one of the keepers there and explained to her that it was technically really a leucistic animal, and not an amel(t-negative) more common known form of albinism. I went on to explain that I have snakes that are leucistic too. Her response was...."well, this is a turtle, and not a snake though". I just laughed and walked away. She didn't want to hear anything from me, since I was "only" a paying visiting customer, so how could I possibly know anything about reptile genetics..LOL! I'm sure she was thinking.."who does this guy think he is, trying to tell ME what it is?", he probably has a cornsnake or garter snake at the house and he "thinks" he's an expert..LOL!

I get the same type of comments at many pet stores too when I try to tell them about something they have that is grossly mis-labeled, they look at me as if to say,..."hmmm, he's trying to tell ME what I have?,....I'm the professional since I have the store, and he doesn't".........hahaha, yeah, right!!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I talked to a lady when I was at the Tucson Reptile Show and she works at the Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum (ASDM) and she says they have a rare kingsnake that was caught in Arizona....and said it as a Grassland Kingsnake. I told her there wasn't such a thing... she rolled her eyes at me and walked away in a huff. LOL

I mean what do I know...........

Kerby...

LOL!!,..Boy, I hear ya Kerby. So what exactly was that form of Cal. King they had on display in your opinion?

Now, I have heard of certain "types" of Cal. king captured from "grasslands" in certain places, but they certainly ain't called "Grassland kingsnake" as you mentioned just because that was the type of terrain they were found in..LOL! If that was the case, there would be "seven-eleven kings", "vacant lot kings, "parking lot kings", etc..LOL!

I seem to recall some mention about certain grasslands in Hubbs' book too, but can't remember now what natural morph(s) he was referring to though.

So what was your take on the one they had displayed there at the museum?

~Doug

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

After reading your post again, I see she was telling you about it, and you didn't see it personally. So my previous question would be impossible to answer..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

>>...she says they have a rare kingsnake that was caught in Arizona....and said it as a Grassland Kingsnake.

we go to the expos to learn, right?!

Sounds like the same "know-it-all" lady that was at the zoo I was trying to explain the difference to..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hey Don, you went and saw this Splendida, What do you think? It really is lighter Color then most, maybe it is a lavender? or maybe it was the lighting?. Martin

Hi Marty, this is the problem with morph names and common names in general.

By difinition, any snake with less black pigment then normal is hypo. That about of difference does not matter, does it? So without question, the ASDM specimen is hypo. For display purposes at the ASDM, Hypo suits that animal fine. They are not into captive morphs and combinations of morphs. So a simple hypo it is.

Albinos, both T- and T are also hypos. Extreme hypos as they have less black or lacking black pigment. Lavenders are also hypos. All types of lavenders. There are many many types(locals, strains, etc) of hypos.

I was around when the name lavender was first coined. It was attached to a type of hypo kingsnake that had more dark pigment then a T- albino but was not normal. There were no T 's at the time, that was not coined yet. The name, lavender, was to allow this type of snake to be labelled and sold as a type. A Lavender king.

The term lavender is a pet trade name, not a discriptive name like hypo or hyper.

They're many many types of lavenders and they do overlap with T albinos. In fact, what is the difference between a hypo, and a T albino? Do all T albinos have the same concentration of pigment? no they don't. T do have dark pigment, and so do hypos and lavenders, so which is what? Is there a certain amount of pigment that determines if they are albino(T-) or T albino, or lavender, or blond, or are they all different degrees of hypomelinism? By difinition, they all fall under the discriptive term, hypos. Cheers

The plus does not come out after T, So unless there is a - after the T, its a T plus(have to spell it I guess)

Can I add something without gettign my head bit off?
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

me: "Umm... miss I just wanted to let you know that you have a baby savanna monitor in this cage but its marked as a leopard gecko."

Dumb employee woman in a mall pet store: "No it is labeled correctly."

Me: "Haha, that is not a leopard gecko, I would know, I have a dozen of them at home."

Lady: "You think I can't tell a monitor from a gecko?!"

me: "Obviously not if you are calling that monitor a gecko! Why don't you ask a manager"

Then she starts getting all upset and is bordering on yelling some crap about me not telling her how to do her job. The manager comes over and first tells her that it is a monitor. And then pulls her aside and fires her. Probably more for being a dick to me than for being an idiot about reptiles. I felt a little bad. But only a little...

np
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Man!,...that is funny as all heck!..LOL!

I can relate to it 100 percent too!

Just about EVERY SINGLE time I go to a pet store, I see stuff grossly mislabeled. And the employees feel embarrassed over being corrected about it from someone who just walked into their store. They seem to feel that most people going into their store don't have much experience, or they wouldn't be there in the first place..LOL!

Not long ago, a guy had a VERY nice Chihuahua Mountain King(knoblochi) listed as a Honduran Milksnake..LOL! Only I did lots of business with him before, so he knew I knew exactly what I was talking about, and he quickly corrected his sign.

Another pet store......lady has a Madagascar Blonde Hognose(L. modestus) labeled as an Eastern Hognose..LOL!.....I sold her many snakes in the past as well, so again, she knew I knew what I was talking about and corrected it promptly.

Same lady bought a Andean Milksnake(L.t.andesiana) from me, and I even wrote BOTH the common name, AND the scientific Latin name down on a piece of paper so she could label the cage correctly. What happens??,.....I come back about a week later because I was running low on hoppers, and I see the cage labeled.."Indian Milksnake"..LOL!!

And so on, and so on, and so on..........................

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Here in California, grassland kings would not be a bad way to describe our coastal Cal kings. Their habitat is grassland.

Perhaps the lady meant grassland king as opposed to say a montane king.

But what do you know about Cal kings lol.
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Mark

Aren't lavenders just more extreme hypomelanistics??????
I thought this when I saw my first lavender calking.....
Lavender is just a made-up, coloquial name.....
Hypomelanistic is the correct term I believe and there are different degrees of hypomelanism.....
Just my two cents....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...