I am new to monitors and after doing some research I have decided to acquire a dwarf monitor. After reviewing this forum and other websites I have decided to go with either an ackie or a black headed monitor (varanus tristis tristis). Which would be the better monitor for a beginner?
I need to know the pros and cons of each. Every time I looked up info on the black headed monitor I always ended up with info on the freckled monitor. I know that the two subspecies are very similar in care and feeding habits, but are they different in temperament? Also how can the two be distinguished as juveniles? Approx how much do CB black headed monitors cost?
How dark do the black headed monitors' heads get, because most of the pics of them online look just like freckled monitors. Is this just subspecies confusion? Thanks for the input.
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ackie or tristis, the better beginner monitor?
Replies (56)
Hmm, I'm not sure but I believe that Sav's are the probably the cheapest and the best for beginners. It is highly up to you though. My sav cost $70, I got him as a VERY small hatchling, I believe he was only about 2-3 weeks old when I got him. He was approximately 5 inches with the tail. I started him off with crickets but that didn't do to well with growth. As he got bigger to about a foot with the tail I started with pre-killed rodents. A sav should be in an enclosure at least twice the size of its body length, and the width should be about the size of its body. Sav's are pretty easy to take care of. I would recommend a sav, they are pretty cheap and they are a good pet. You can find them in pretty much every pet store. They grow to about 3.5 feet, mine is 20" now. They should be fed EVERY day however. Like I said the choice is yours. Good luck!
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
blind leading the blind over here...
just because a baby Sav is "cheap" and is available "in every pet store" DOES NOT make them a great choice, and certainly not for a beginner.
we address the "beginner Savannah" issue on our site, feel free to take a look. if Savs were such a perfect beginner monitor, there wouldn't be tens of thousands of neglected, abused, unwanted animals out there.
Ackies make a great choice for a beginner monitor. Hearty, lots of personality, captive bred, affordable to raise and cage in the long term, and the overall enjoyment quotient is very high. Tristis are also fine monitors, but for a "first" monitor, i think the Ackies would be the best choice for a first timer, very hard to go wrong with them, and the selection is going to be wider, and price more affordable, than the Tristis.
start with some Ackies, perhaps a pair, if monitors turn out to be your thing, they are a great animal to earn your wings with, and they leave plenty of room to branch out from there. Tristis, Pilbas, Cauds, a few choices of a few more challenging animals that would really make for a nice well rounded collection.
ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC to see you doing research and critical thinking before jumping in, that is the best move you could make! best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com
Excuse me but I am not saying that because Savs are cheap and available they are a perfect beginner monitor, I am saying that they are good for beginners because unlike the other monitors they dont require an enclosure that takes up one whole room in your house or you dont need to put an actual pond in their enclosure to swim in. They are pretty tame as well and they are good pets. Thats why I think they are good for beginners. Please dont critisize me when you dont even know what I am getting at.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Savs don't get too big? that is funny. aside from Waters, Niles, and the Albigs, what gets more heavy bodied than Savs? a healthy Sav is a large monitor, not medium, and certainly not small.
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robyn@proexotics.com
You are from Pro Exotics? And you are fighting and arguing like this? This isn't being very professional and its not good for Pro Exotics. Please refrane from doing this. Usually house savs get to about 4 feet. You dont see people with 6 foot savs at their homes. Someone who works at a company like that acting so immature is just plain bad. I dont see why you have to flip out on me. Why dont you just correct me if I am wrong like a human being and move on. Geez...
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
i did correct your misleading statements. i inferred that you are a beginner, that shouldn't be giving out erroneous info. you certainly seem to be. there is nothing personal there, you are reading too much into it.
my "job" is not to respond to beginner posts on the forums, i do it because i want folks to have a better experience and make the right choices. grow some thicker skin, good grief.
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robyn@proexotics.com
Ok well I am sorry that I have may have mislead you or him. I am not exactly a "beginner" with herps. I have spent a year with monitors but I have spent about 10 years in herps with Anoles, Iguanas, Turtles, Geckos, and other lizards. Please end this insanity. I sure will.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Robyn never criticized u and never called u a beginner he just said Savs are heavy bodied monitors which is true they get like 6 feet. Also u said that savs make good pets cuz they dont need big enclosures well ackies dont need big enclosures that take a whole room plus they are affordable plus what u would feed a Save in a couple of weeks u could feed ackies for a year.
BT that is. I would love to see a 6' Bosc! Hahaha. Although Ive had some in the past that looked 6' in GIRTH! 
Michelle
Robyn isn't fighting. It wouldn't matter is he was from the White House!! What does being from Pro-Exotics have to do with anything? He's explaining something to you because you clearly haven't a clue, and you're chastizing him because of it and calling him unprofessional? You're in glue dude. And you new name is Elmer. As in the glue, not the Fudd.
Robyn, don't bother man. Its officially a troll.
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Are you some kind of immature idiot? Did I not just apologize to Robyn? Then you call me "dunderhead" (completely lame, very childish too, why not just say "poopoo and pee pee", elmer glue (your a dork), and then troll. Seriously, you are a dork, captain of the chess team? Get a grip and grow up, your not in pre-k anymore. I apologized to Robyn and ended it, why dont you end it and grow up.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Sorry.. I need to post here PPK. Not even a few months ago you were in here asking us why your 10 month old Savannah Monitor was only 10 inches long or so and that you were only feeding it crickets. HELLO! You do NOT need to be giving advice to ANYONE else regarding this species. A 10 month old Bosc monitor should be at LEAST 2.5 ft long...if not more when fed a proper diet which yours clearly wasn't because you didn't take the time to RESEARCH the animal's needs obviously. Now, I admit, you're finally doing the right thing regarding this animal... but you are still VERY new to the proper requirements of Sav's. I don't even give advice unless I've been told it by MANY people. Bosc monitors are in NO WAY the perfect beginner monitor. While they may be cheap for the initial purchase... they aren't cheap to keep captive. I know. Mine would eat me out of house and home if I didn't breed my own feeders for all my animals.
Experience with Iguana's and other lizards does NOT mean you know anything about monitors in the least. I've been around reptiles since I was old enough to walk. I've handled other people's monitors, owned a very VERY grumpy African Rock Python, and other large boids and pythons. It was only after that, that I felt competant enough to purchase a monitor of this caliber. They are agressive.. they may hate you for their entire lives... so recommending them for a beginner is not only dangerous but idiotic. I'm sorry if this offends you, but as a beginner in the monitor world, I don't even give advice unless I've tested the veracity of that advice myself and seen that it works. Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut, my head down and I read what the experts have to say... contributing my opinions but I'm not about to debate the care of these animals with someone who obviously has had much more experience and SUCCESS with monitor life events than I may ever have. You'd do well to adopt the same approach.
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Lucien
1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)
Okay, well I am new to monitors and I am still learning. But why am I called troll and a (I have to laugh at this since it is so incredibly lame) "dunderhead." Now I am learning more and more about monitors so yes, I am a bit of a novice, but not a dunder head. I said sorry jeez...
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Your learning more and more about your "one" monitor. And by all means, that is great. But the real point is, yours is not all, not even all Savs. Its just one. Please keep it in context, your getting better at keeping your sav.
And for the fella that does not give advice unless many people tell him. Wow, thats just as bad. Why don't you wait until you have some actual experience. As Robyn said, its the blind leading the blind. In many cases its true. Heresay, wifestails and bad information, can indeed arrive in groups.
Both of you should indeed share your observations. Share your pics, and share your love for reptiles, but giving advice?? F
Eh, I guess you're right. I am only familiar with Savs. All monitors cant be completely different can they? I guess so. Thank you for clearing this up FR. Maybe this Jeff guy will lighten up a bit.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
You can go buy two savs, keep them exactly alike, one lives and does well, the other dies. This happens all the time.
Its not so much that each Sav had different requirements, but more because each Sav, had a different history. This is one reason why captive hatched monitors are so good, they don't have a negative history. F
Whats the difference between a CBB and a CB? My sav is a CB. I'm just curious since once and a while I will see a CBB monitor.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
I don't think there OUGHT to be a difference, but CBB means the animal was born AND bred in the US. CB is just captive born, and some people use it to mean the same as 'captive hatched'. Captive hatched might mean that the animal came from an egg laid by a WC gravid female, perhaps while still in another country. Since the terms are all open to interpretation, the only way to be sure is to ask the seller exactly where the animal came from.
Interesting fact to learn, thank you.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Well let's put it this way, your monitor is neither a CB, CBB, CH. Your monitor is a flat out a WC, it's the sad, plain truth. But anyhow, usually CB is an animal that is captive bred, and people use CBB to show that an animal was captive bred from parents that were captive bred. Thanks for your time.
No, my Sav IS a CB. As it said on the tank where I got him it read "C.B. Hatchling Savannah Monitors...$69.99."
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
I hate to tell you this buddy but your little CB sav was living in africa at one time or another. Either existing as a monitor or an egg but I can tell you that he is not captive born. No savannahs on the market or captive bred. It's just the truth. I am not telling you this to debate you, just to educate you. very,very,very,very few had successfully bred savs. You have to remember, the same petshop that has all their animals in fish-tanks and astroturf is the same petshop that will add "CB" on a label to make a sell. It is a sad fact, about this world and the people in it, they will lie or mislead to make a buck. It's also sad that your sav was brought into this country for $1-2. Sold to you for 69.99 while you were being lied to, and I am sure they did not educate you of the proper husbandry. You learn something everyday in this industry. But hey, now you know where he came from. Your on the right track, just keep at it and keep letting your monitor be a monitor. (that is your job) He will do his job (being a monitor) if you let him and do all things possible to allow it. If your doing your job correctly you will learn hundreds of new things about that monitor. Also if you do your job really good you will look back and realize the thousands and thousands of dollars you spent on feeding and housing your that one sav. (was all worth it)
It doesn't bother me that he isnt from the US. Just as long as he is healthy and happy. I wasn't exactly given improper husbandry, I was told I could just feed him crickets though (wrong!). That mistake wasn't very costly just its that Jango could have been about 40" instead of 21". I then found out like I said, in June that I should feed him Frozen Pre-Killed Mice. I never knew there was such a thing (stupid of me). I started using that mid-June and Jango started getting huge instantly. He practically grows over night! Today I think its safe to say he has just finished his shed. Time for the next one in a few days. I like feeding him rodents and meat, he is bulkier and is getting bigger. The only downside is I bought him the 40 gallon in June (he got big for the 20, he was about a foot with the tail in June) and now I spend $90 on something that didnt even last 3 months, he grew over 8 inches in 3 months. Now I am going to be building him his new enclosure, despite all the money I have been spending, I am loving this experience. Herp's is my favorite hobby. I was thinking of getting another monitor as a companion for Jango but I thought, nah, hes good enough for me. This has been fun, the first year has been great and hes not even full grown yet! I cant wait!
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Thats a good attitude...like I said keep at it....don't get bored of it when it doesn't get an ohh or aww from your peers. It is a long commitment. Good decision not getting another, be sucessful with one first. Trust me it's more to fun to be successful with one than it is to be unsucessful to two. Well good luck.
Rudy
My father and my big brother like him, my mother, my sister, my friends, my cousin, and my other brother hate him. I dont care though. Hes my pet. I am good to him, and he is pretty good to me. He hisses and he'll give me a little whip sometimes, not too often, its better than getting bitten.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
I think you misunderstood what I meant FR. I don't normally give advice regarding monitors unless people I know to have successfully kept monitors also corroborate the information. I don't like the idea that if the information I have is wrong that someone else's animal may suffer for it which is why I have a problem with people new to this acting like they know everything after a few months. I sure in the hell know I don't know everything about these animals and would never claim to no matter if I'd kept them for years and years which I haven't. I try to learn from those people here who do have the knowledge when it comes to monitors.
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Lucien
1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)
ITs not what people say or tell eachother that is good or bad. This is only words, they are neither good or bad. The same goes for conditions, temps, etc. What is good or bad is the results of this.
For instance, people here like to say, my cage is perfect or the temps are ideal. They say this because its told to them or on some care sheet. In reality, the cage or the conditions are only good if the monitor responds to them. If the monitors does not, the they suck. Get it? It doesn't matter what the people say, its about the monitor.
For instance, if i showed you a beautiful healthy adult monitor. Then I told you, I raised it, in a trashcan. With no lites. What would you say?
The reason I bring this up is, how often do you read this, my monitor is (whatever) and I do not understand it, its cage is idea or perfect. In truth, its not ideal or perfect, if the monitor is not ideal or perfect. F
Those big dumpsters...There at least like 10 feet long and like 6 ft deep. Im sure you could get a few feet of dirt in one of one of those things just fine. Not to mention theyre on wheeles!
Oh yeah, and theyre free! I see them all over the place. People just abandon them behind stores and at apartment complexes! Finders keepers!
Michelle
I agree completely... However what other people do say and write gives you a place to start and then adjust from there to tailor to the individual monitor's needs and preferences. I suppose I'm not yet confident enough to really be giving advice regarding any species of monitor due to my lack of experience in this area... I'll make suggestions I suppose about how I keep mine.. but thats mine and what she likes...which wouldn't always apply anyway. I fully understand each monitor is an individual regardless of species. I also understand different things work for different keepers and I say bravo to them for being confident enough in what they're doing right to tell everyone else about it.. (if they are indeed doing something right). Its all about putting your ideas up for a pass or fail to those people who have found certain things that have worked well for them. But, I also don't believe beginners in the realm of monitors(Or many other reptiles either) should really be giving advice to other beginners who wouldn't know any better....
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Lucien
1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)
I think you misunderstood what I meant FR. I don't normally give advice regarding monitors unless people I know to have successfully kept monitors also corroborate the information. I don't like the idea that if the information I have is wrong that someone else's animal may suffer for it which is why I have a problem with people new to this acting like they know everything after a few months. I sure in the hell know I don't know everything about these animals and would never claim to no matter if I'd kept them for years and years which I haven't. I try to learn from those people here who do have the knowledge when it comes to monitors.
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Lucien
1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)
I think you misunderstood what I meant FR. I don't normally give advice regarding monitors unless people I know to have successfully kept monitors also corroborate the information. I don't like the idea that if the information I have is wrong that someone else's animal may suffer for it which is why I have a problem with people new to this acting like they know everything after a few months. I sure in the hell know I don't know everything about these animals and would never claim to no matter if I'd kept them for years and years which I haven't. I try to learn from those people here who do have the knowledge when it comes to monitors.
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Lucien
1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)
Savs are a medium species, and require a lot more room than you think.
You admit to keeping it in a 40 gallon aquarium for the first year, and now are building a 6x3. I'll bet you think that is a lot of room. Think again.
For a beginner, the species that will cost less and be healthier, is the best choice. And small monitors cost MUCH less to house and feed than a bigger one.
You can buy a 30 dollar sav, and spend 1000 the first year housing, feeding, and taking it to the vet (and most likely end up with a dead monitor anyway), OR
buy a 200 dollar ackie and spend 50 bucks a year feeding it, and no health problems.
Do the math.
They need less stuff, so that makes it easier for a beginner to provide it, and do a good job of it. Beginners want to still have an animal alive after spending all their money and time on a new pet.
And please refrain from attacking people who took the time out of their day to try and help you. Robyn has generously helped more people than you could know. Expect to get thumped, and meanly, if you attack Robyn again.
D.
It seems that once a week now, the people that need advice just keep throwing advice out there. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially dealing with monitors. I don't know, it is just a little fustrating, it seems as though people try to get accepted by the "good" monitor keepers by throwing out advice faster than they can type. Oh well, just a thought.
By the way how are those eggs doing Dragoon?
It seems that once a week now, the people that need advice just keep throwing advice out there. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially dealing with monitors. I don't know, it is just a little fustrating, it seems as though people try to get accepted by the "good" monitor keepers by throwing out advice faster than they can type. Oh well, just a thought.
By the way how are those eggs doing Dragoon?
It seems that once a week now, the people that need advice just keep throwing advice out there. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially dealing with monitors. I don't know, it is just a little fustrating, it seems as though people try to get accepted by the "good" monitor keepers by throwing out advice faster than they can type. Oh well, just a thought.
By the way how are those eggs doing Dragoon?
I wasn't "attacking" Robyn. Geez, this is an Herp Forum, not a bar room where brawls take place. And please, dont threaten me, I am not going to get threatened so dont waste your time. If you notice I apologized, and that apology is still there.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
what does ppk stand for?
for the best info on ackies 9 out of 10 chose proexotics
cheeers danny.
It doesn't really stand for anything. Its just a knickname given to me by family and friends.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Hes just over-enthusiastic thats all. Everyone here has been there at some point. Just point him in the right direction and move on.
Thank you. That is what I am talking about. It is pretty much over, the arguments have died down, its ending. I think I'm over enthusiastic since tomorrow me and my father are finally going to Home Depot and Lowes (if needed) to get our supplies for Jango's new enclosure. We might build it tomorrow (it depends if it gets late) or we will just continue it and finish on Saturday. All in all I am very excited. I am going to go to the Pet Store first tomorrow after school with my friend and where going to get another light fixture and some mice (live) since I wont be getting my Rodent Pro shipment till next week. I am really excited about this.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Best of luck!
Thank you! I will be posting pictures of him and his enclosure soon. I have a bunch of pictures from when he was a small hatchling to him now as a juvenile, I have to get them on the site soon.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
Thanks for your response, you mentioned that there is a "wider selection" of ackies, what do you mean by this? Are you saying that there are different types of ackies? I do know of the three subspecies, red, yellow, and island, but are there more? If you have any pics I'd love to see them!
Also how do ackies and tristis differ in size (bulk not length)?
Thanks again.
i meant that there are more folks breeding Ackies, so you are more likely to find them for sale : )
we have not worked with the Tristis ourselves, so i don't feel too smart about giving you any specific details about them. go chase down RSG- Richard Ginn, either here or on the varanus.net forum, i think he has done some work with them...
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robyn@proexotics.com
Bosc monitors are a medium sized species that can grow from 2.5-4 ft and require alot of space vertical, horizontal, and subterranean. They love to dig and tunnel so thats where you need a foot or 2 of dirt, with something to climb on, hide under, water, a temp gradient from cool to hot included is a basking spot that is a 130 degree surface. If you incorperate these things as a very minimum to equiping a cage for a hatchling alone you would need a 4x2x2 cage (for a hatchling). For an adult you would need at least 4x4x8 or larger so the cost savings of a $5 savannah is dwarfed by housing not including food, and vet bills for an imported animal etc. As for the size and age of you animal when you got it Ive seen many bosc babies for years at 3-5 inches total length and the sellers had them for several weeks to get them eating and chubby before they sell them, Ive asked and was told the average at that size were 10-15 weeks old imported. The hatchlings Ravi had were about 2.5 inches long at hatching time and probably for a week or three. Ackies can be kept in a 4x2x2 cage their whole life because they average 16-24 inches. The ackies are all CBB so they have a jump start on any WC animal, not only that you are not participating or supporting mass importing of starving, dehydrated animals.
What type of "meat" are you feeding your Sav.
Christine
Chicken, a little bit of steak and roast beef here and there but mostly chicken if any meat. He is fed rodents the most as thats the base of his diet.
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My Savannah Monitor Jango's Statistics:
Size: 20"
Weight: 2 pounds
Ambient Temps: 92 degrees
Bask Spot Temps: 120 degrees
Night time Temps: 75 degrees
Diet: Thawed 3 inch mice and other meat products
Tank: 40 gallon breeder (switching to 6x3x3 hopefully this wkd)
Age: 14 Months (his size is small for his age but he is starting to catch up shedding at 2 times a month!)
I haven't worked w/ or kept ackies but I've worked w/ both tristis species. they are individuals but overall they are both calm. The tritis orientalis I had was so calm she ate out the palm of my hand, she literally would take the prey item out of my hand while sitting in my hand. Get some books as references to fall back on. There are several good authors Daniel Bennett, Steve King, Matt Vincent & others just order them from Barnes & Nobles or you local book store.
Thanks for the info, do you happen to know the titles of the books or the ISBN numbers? Also can you tell me approx how much the tristis typically cost. Were the tristis tristis as calm and tolerant as the tristis orientalis?
Do you have any pics of your tristis tristis?
Thanks again.
Also how can you distinguish between tristis tristis and tristis orientalis when they are young, because tristis tristis don't develope their black heads until later, right? How dark do tristis tristis get? Pics would be great. Thanks.
Which one do you like the best, thats the one.
Also, any species that is truely captive hatched by captive parents. Not monitors whos eggs were stolen from nature. Example, farm raised= babies whos parents were caught by the farm.
The very first ability you must have, is the ability to choose the type of monitor you want. If you have to ask, then you may not be ready for one. So please for the monitors sake, learn the skill to decide for yourself. F
Ive gotten threatened by dealers when I asked for them to explain this to me. I asked them how they can use the word "bred" if thats not what theyre doing.
Terms can be very miss leading. Is there a such thing as "farmbred" in the industry?
According to Daniel Bennett(pers. comm.) There are no captive bred monitors being exported out of the countries he visited. He has witnessed, actually he accompanied the locals when they went out to collect eggs and gravid females.
On a side note, we (mostly him) have made some attempts to actually create a farm that does indeed produce captive Savs. He has not been able to find any interest in the countries he has visited again. They have no problem collecting numbers and its far cheaper. Collecting also employes more people. Which is their main concern.
Daniel, then wanted to farm Ozzie monitors in Africa, for export. In that, I have no interest. I have no interest in making low cost monitors. In fact, I wish they would cost more then the average kids toy. Or at least more then the average successful enclosure, it takes to house them. On the otherhand, I would be interested helping farm monitors to replace the wild monitor hide trade, like the croc farms do.
In your search for the truth, if no proof is offered, then how can you believe it. As you have seen, words are very cheap, even here on this forum. Unfortunately because of the prevelance of stories, outright lies, wifestails, misinformation, etc. Proof is needed. Remember, good science always requires proof.
Please do not be so hard on these people, when there is a string of lies, how do you know whom to blame. As the people in the middles are also the victims of lies. Remember its simple math. For every 15 baby Savs, there exsists a clutch of eggs, so if 100000 babies come in, how many clutches is that, and why no pictures of breeding, eggs incubating, hatching, cages of babies, the facilities to do all this and produce the food to feed all this. U know, all the things you see from captive breeders. If these things are hidden, then you must understand, there are reasons these things are hidden.
Ask for proof, then ask them to get proof from the next step up, the jobber, then the jobber, from the importer, then the importer from the exporter. It simply should be somewhere. Hmmmmmmmm time and time again, all these pet shops knows a person who is breeding them, yet not a single one has pics. Heck, even if some produced pics, what does that to do with 10's of thousands?????? F
certainly the "farmed" term is used a lot, and it may not be accurate. better than straight up lies as "captive bred" though, as in the case of the imported Savs and Ball pythons.
but successful reptile farms DO indeed exist, in at least one instance. the Bushmaster Indo farm breeds and hatches a number of species. nearly a thousand chondros, nearly 3000(!) Blood pythons, and hundreds of monitors. they are really doing the work there, and should be commended. check out Kamuran's site for pics of his farm. if i was 15 years younger, i would uproot it all (not much at that point : ) and move to Indo to work that farm for just about nothing, it is a beautiful setting, and the animals are great. for monitors, they are supplying all the captive bred Melinus, which they have bred a few hundred, as well as some Timor stuff, and a few other projects coming along.
they use actual cages and setups, not just a netted-in selection of jungle that serves as a collecting area. check out their site, the pics are sweet, and you tell me you wouldn't love to put in some time there : )
Bushmaster Indo Farm pics
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robyn@proexotics.com
How about we convert some of those big time livestock breeders over? Ive seen lots of state of the art equestrian breeding facilities that have bank just piled up waiting to be spent on some ingenious breeding idea. Hmmmm.
That facility is really nice though. I would love to work a summer or two there! Maybe next year.
Rgrds,
Michelle
