Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I picked up a few new Louisiana pine snakes today. Feel free to ask about their lineage, I have it all written down on data cards...too much to list all at once.
Enjoy!!

Cheers,
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

Sweet...

nice.....

what are you trying to do, corner the market????? LOL

Thanks!
"what are you trying to do, corner the market????? LOL"
That's what some would believe!! LOLOLO!!!!
Too funny!!!
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--Brian Scott

How big is this market anyway? Can it be cornered? Might be better to purchase a few corners in Louisiana

Remember that guy who attempted to corner the silver market. Amazing amount of money needed to attempt such a feat. Yet he succeeded. He owned so much of it that when prices fell he almost took the entire hit himself, Billions lost. Not one Billion, but billions. Still a billionaire so it really did not hurt him

Anyone know his name

Wow, good thing I am not trying to corner any markets. I just like Louisiana pine snakes, and have access to many of the best lineages out there. It's good for my program, which is growing quite substantially....not to mention having so many of these critters really allows me to see how variable they really are...something many are not willing to admit, but would rather just start screaming "hybrid"! Silly miserable people. The haters can just keep hating and complaining.....misery loves company
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--Brian Scott

Pics do depict variability. All pines, for that matter are fairly variable in color and pattern.

Nice group. You have done well.

"not to mention having so many of these critters really allows me to see how variable they really are...something many are not willing to admit, but would rather just start screaming "hybrid"! Silly miserable people. The haters can just keep hating and complaining.....misery loves company"

Ahem.... Don't you think your sensitivity goes just a little over the top here? I'm not sure if you're refering to me or not, since I'm one of them who used the "H-word" on recent earlier postings. I didn't quite scream it, I merely suggested it as a possibility. And I never said I hate them.

Regardless, what's wrong with a little criticism anyway? Would you be happy to find out that your precious time and hard earned money was wasted on something which isn't quite what it said on the box? Would you be happy to see your life's work go down the drain because others where way to eager to ask any real questions? Scepticism is what's keeping the Louisiana Pine alive.

BTW, I think they look great, so congrats.

"Scepticism is what's keeping the Louisiana Pine alive"

I totally agree. Good point. Skepticism should always be shown by serious collectors. Disregard of history only means we are doomed to repeat it. Should not be labeled as a paranoia, but of wisdom gained, experience.

I must say, history has repeated itself a number of times in this hobby/industry. Actually, a couple of times in the pituophis world as well. We all know this to a certain degree. Still comes down to personal preference. I like verifiable history on most herps I acquire. No paranoia here, I know what has been done to many herp lines in this industry and try to stay clear of a few of them. That's me.

Though the personal stuff in the previous posts I will not touch, ain't worth the time.

Now on with the pics

NICE animals! I don't have the finances or the space in my snake room (as some of you know, the rest of my room belongs to species and hybrids of the Orchidaciae, and other plants) to have more LA pines but VERY nice work Piney!
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1.0 Boa- Hogg Island
0.1 Bull- Northern
1.0 Bull- TX Red
0.1 Bull- KS Yellow
1.1 Bulls- Red X Yellow
1.0 Bull- Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
1.0 Corn Snake (Okeetee?)
1.1 Fox Snakes- Western
1.1 Kings- Black Easterns (L.g.nigra) Todd Co. KY
1.2 Kings- Coastal CA
1.1 Kings- NC Eastern Chains (M from Union Co. & F from Mecklenburg Co.)
1.1 Kings- Gray Banded 'Blair's'
1.1 Kings- Speckled, Harris Co. TX
1.1 Pines- Carolina Northerns (M from NC, F from SC)
1.1 Pines- Louisiana (pure descendants of Terry Vandeventer stock)
1.1 Pythons- Ball
1.1 Ratsnakes- Black, Henderson Co. NC

Very nice!! Wow!! What a group!
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Genesis 1:1

Those are pretty cool looking

Dan Eby

Goodness Dan!!!
Thanks for the compliment, but YOURS is cooler looking than mine!!
Any background info on that beast?
Thanks for posting,
--Brian
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--Brian Scott

You do know that is bull snake and not a La pine, right? Just making sure, I may have misunderstood the comment. Sorry if I did.
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Matt Kauffman

HYBRID!!!...LOL

Ouch on two counts..

LOL....well it's FAR TOO colorful to be an LA pine....isn't that what the going theory is by some around here?
Anywy......it's all in good clean fun, remember this is a hobby, you know, something that is supposed to be FUN. Not to mention it's great to see shots of any and all snakes in a natural setting like that, I don't care what they are or claim to be.

As RichH would say.....MORE PICS!!!

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--Brian Scott

I wasn't refering to your pictures Brian...those are some really nice "ruthveni" I've got six juv. from one sire and two different females and have several "color phases". Don't know if there is a bull snake in th wood pile or what...but they came from Ginter and believe what he says. I was jokingly referring to the bull snake posted by Dan.

Dan

Never enough pinesnake pics.

please keep in mind that "came from breeder X" and "came from breeder X's blood line" can be two completely different things!

John, don't quiet understand what you mean...are you saying that since the original parents of my LA pines were purchased from you which would be "from breeder x" and the off spring that I produced from those would be "from breeders X's bloodline."?

Dan

Nor do I. See the X and Xs but no Y? Need to know what the Y is between the XYXs. Once we know Y then we will know why not.

YES!!!!!

Firstly, no I was not saying any thing about your snakes or my snakes in particular.. hence the X's!

Let me break this down for you...If I go out and buy a pair of Terry's LA pines from Terry I can be relatively sure that they are pure... right, (THAT IS THE FIRTST X in my above posted equation) however if I go out and buy a pair of Terry's bloodline LA pines from someone other than Terry they are no longer terry's snakes but rather "terry's blood line" and there is a level of removal.....(insert 2nd X). My point being that just because someone is marketing terry's line LA's, or ginter line northerns, or cherry line deppei, or lemke line black pines does not mean that those animals are true to what ever line was quoted and credited? Right? Again.....I am not referencing your snake.....

I hope that this clarifies my post and we can all get back to X's and O's

As a side note, there was some evidence that folks were using legit captive lines of protected snakes to laundry wild caught animals.... with the use of genetic material they got shut down and prosecuted! Gotta love science!

Firstly John...didn' think you were refering to anyone's stock in particular...Terry's yours, mine or whoever, just didn't understand what you were saying, thus why I asked you to clarify and gave my example of what I thought you meant.

Secondly, I would agree with you to this extent, for someone to ask YOU to verify what THEY have produced to be "true", would be an unreasonable request for them to make of you, as you would have no way of knowing. But, for them to ask YOU (or whoever they purchased them from) to verify that they had indeed purchased their founding stock of said snakes from you (or whoever) is NOT an unreasonable request. I really don't understand why you even made that post on the difference between x and xs and what it was in reference too in that particular thread.

Dan

I think that my post was in response to your post noted below....
My only point is that once snakes leave a breeder's facility no one can be truley sure of that line's authenticity. In other words snakes from my Stillwater hypo line that you get from someone other than me may or may not be legit.... Does that seem more clear? If I get snakes at a show from someone and that person indicates that he or she got them from someone who got them from some else but that they are "applegate" line.... it does not necessarily mean that you are getting legit full blood applegate animals?

hope that clears up my point for you. No intent to create a problem just voicing a point of view that any line of snakes can be corrupted once they leave the confines of the founding breeder's control................

Drop me a line if you need any further clarrification or just want to chat....

Keep up the good work, you have some really nice animals....

Cheers, Ginter

"I wasn't refering to your pictures Brian...those are some really nice "ruthveni" I've got six juv. from one sire and two different females and have several "color phases". Don't know if there is a bull snake in th wood pile or what...but they came from Ginter and believe what he says. I was jokingly referring to the bull snake posted by Dan."

I see John. I guess I wasn't clear on my post. I did get both parents from YOU. Sat on your waiting list for two years. They came from YOUR stock...shipped directly to ME. My point was that in the offspring that I got from those snakes, I had three different looking "morphs" that others had referenced. Two looked like the mothers (like the ones you posted), two looked like the father and the other two are mixed. I was "joking" about the bull snake in the woodpile as I stated "I trusted your word." The thread was dealing with the "variableness" of LA pines. I hope that clears it up for you. So by your definition...the parents are "Ginters Stock" and my offspring is "Ginters blood line."

Cheers,

Dan Phelps

Actually Dan, your pines do look a little funky. I don't know what you have going on over there but very funky.

If you have your doubts about them, no problem, send them to me as I have some free space for them.

Oh, wait, that's right, you are not regrettable after all

Well Rich...if I send them to you...the only guanrantee I can give you is the guarantee I got when I purchased them!!! :>

Dan

You did not mention marketing in your first post. Many people state herp origins when marketing herps. Of course some just do it for justifying possible disparaties in pricing with said competitors. Why this came up here makes no sense to me.

If I purchased any herps from, say, you for example, and stated it as such. They would still be herps that originated from your stock. Right?

Implications of such things as using legite lines to move WC through the market has happened but why is this important in what you originally stated. Not a good Y.

If you were implying once they are out of your hands, who knows what they could be. That's the same stuff these threads have been addressing, the issue of paranoia. That's the only thing I did get out of your previous post. ???

Maybe I need a nap

Very Nice pair of pines. Is this one of your current breeding pairs?