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I would like opinions on an appropriate feeding schedule for gray-banded kingsnakes. I have an '08 female which is already about 28 inches, and eating hoppers. I have been feeding her anoles for some feedings since I have been told lizards are lower in fat. She is pretty plump.

In addition, I have just purchased two '08s that are very small. A medium sized pinky is a large meal for them. The breeder brumated them their first winter. He said it is easier to get them eating pinkies in the spring when he warms them back up,than in their first fall.

What would be an appropriate feeding schedule for the two sizes? I see people talking on this forum about feeding other species of kings as much and as often as they want. But I have been told that is not good for gray-bands, since the habitat they come from does not support a large population of rodents and birds, but instead has more abundant lizard populations.

I would like to know what has worked for those of you more experienced than I. I am used to raising cornsnakes, and you really can't over feed them as babies. But you do have to be carefull, especially with males, not to overfeed them as adults.

Thanks.
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Kent

Sometimes you just have to figure things out with your husbandry. You didn't mention what setup you are using or other vital things.

I don't know that much about greybands but i have worked with other snakes that people thought would regurge if "overfed".

one was the Mexican deppie jani. These usually took 5 years to reach maturity because they were thought to be slow growers and regurged if overfed. Then someone started feeding them hairless rats. And guess what, they didn't regurge and grew up as fast as other snakes. i guess it was the hair that was causing the problem.

Another was rosy boas. They regurged if fed to much. Take out the water bowls and viola' ... they can hold down a lot more food. Turns out the water was causing regurges if they drank to soon before a feeding or to soon after. i had a large collection of Rosys and only had water during brumation and with gravid females. Otherwise they did fine with no water dishes.

Water dishes is another peve of mine. Some snakes are more tolerant to amoebas and squiggly slimy boawls. Keeping fresh water changed daily with the bowls disenfected goes a long way with certain snakes while others like getula are way more tolerant. Also the way you heat the encloser (see thread below this one) has an effect.

In all you have to figure out what is causing these snakes to regurge or to think they can't digest as much as they will eat. Somebody is wrong here and it is not the snakes fault.Theyre hungry and they eat. outside of that it is the husbandry.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Rainier, thanks for the reply. I haven't had any problems with my graybands regurging. I use UTHs and keep the warm end at about 85, cool end around 70. I also keep clean water available all the time. I have noticed that my larger female gray-band usually drinks after eating (maybe to wash the hair down, haha). Again,no regurgs.

They have hides at both temps, so they are fine as far as having choices for thermoregulating. I use the same setups for my cornsnakes.

The reason I asked is because of what the breeder told me about not raising them too fast. He raises lots of gray-bands. I have read posts and seen pics from other breeders that lead me to believe not everyone shares the same opinions about this.

Thanks, and I look forward to reading other's opinions/ideas/experiences too.

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Kent

>>In all you have to figure out what is causing these snakes to regurge or to think they can't digest as much as they will eat. Somebody is wrong here and it is not the snakes fault.Theyre hungry and they eat. outside of that it is the husbandry.>>

If I didn't know better, I'd have thought FR was posting as Bluerosy, lol. Whether FR or Bluerosy, I agree. And giving the snakes environmental choices might be our best chance at getting the best results.
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Mark

>>In addition, I have just purchased two '08s that are very small. A medium sized pinky is a large meal for them. The breeder brumated them their first winter. He said it is easier to get them eating pinkies in the spring when he warms them back up,than in their first fall.
>>
Hi Kent, you might try 2 med size pinkies on your small 2008s. feed them what they will eat.
most snakes will hide 2-3 days while digesting their meal. I myself like to see them active for 2-3 days before feeding again.
I feed my snakes weekly.
Another thing to look for, if they over feed themselfs, they will usually soak in their water bowls.
Most snakes have different feeding habits, even the same kind. One week they will eat two, the next week they will only eat one.
I try to feed mine so they are healthy size, but active. if you feed them all the time they will lay around and get fat, (lose their tone).
Bob

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

>> Another thing to look for, if they over feed themselfs, they will usually soak in their water bowls.
>>Most snakes have different feeding habits, even the same kind. One week they will eat two, the next week they will only eat one.
>>I try to feed mine so they are healthy size, but active. if you feed them all the time they will lay around and get fat, (lose their tone).
I believe if you raise the temps "hot" side up they never lose their tone....and will eat every 3 days or so and be very active, especially after the lights go out (sun goes down)....LOL
Just my observation / opinion.....

BTW....the Pyros may be big enough to breed next year....They are both over 110 grams and over 24 inches.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>BTW....the Pyros may be big enough to breed next year....They are both over 110 grams and over 24 inches.....
>>-----
>>John Lassiter

Hi John, I had one breed at two years, she laid a clutch of three' which was last year. this year(3 yr.old) she laid 5. next year if she lays,7-9.
Hows everything going with all your new snakes, what are you expecting to breed next year.
Bob Bichler
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

>>Hi John, I had one breed at two years, she laid a clutch of three' which was last year. this year(3 yr.old) she laid 5. next year if she lays,7-9.
>>Hows everything going with all your new snakes, what are you expecting to breed next year.

I should get some Thayeri (great bloodlines), Melanistic Thayeri, Granite Mex Mex, Hypo-E Mex Mex, Totally Speckled Mex Mex, Classic (Wild-Blooded) Mex Mex, Amealco-MX Ruthveni, DH for Snow Splendida, Het for White Wall Holbrooki, MBKs, Pyros (maybe), Knoblocki (if I get an adult female) and my WC Pacific Coast Gopher (if I get an adult male)....
That's all I can think of right now....LOL

Did you get those Aberrant Baubel Thayeri to lay some good eggs this year?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>Hi John, I had one breed at two years, she laid a clutch of three' which was last year. this year(3 yr.old) she laid 5. next year if she lays,7-9.
>>>>Hows everything going with all your new snakes, what are you expecting to breed next year.
>>
>>I should get some Thayeri (great bloodlines), Melanistic Thayeri, Granite Mex Mex, Hypo-E Mex Mex, Totally Speckled Mex Mex, Classic (Wild-Blooded) Mex Mex, Amealco-MX Ruthveni, DH for Snow Splendida, Het for White Wall Holbrooki, MBKs, Pyros (maybe), Knoblocki (if I get an adult female) and my WC Pacific >>Coast Gopher (if I get an adult male)....
I WOULD GIVE YOU MY MALE IF MY WIFE WOULD LET ME GET RID OF HIM.
(She says he has been in the family to long,)(14-15 years)

These pictures were taken about 5-6 years ago, he's alot bigger now.

>>That's all I can think of right now....LOL

Sounds great, I'll be looking forward to see your hatchlings.
>>
>>Did you get those Aberrant Baubel Thayeri to lay some good eggs this year?

No Thayeri this year, In fact I sold off the male to another breeder, who lives close by. I had loaned the male to him, for his females, and he liked him so much, he wanted to buy him. I wanted to reduce my collection, so decided to sell him. I'm sure he would let me borrow him back if I asked.
-Bob

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

>>my WC Pacific >>Coast Gopher (if I get an adult male)....
>>I WOULD GIVE YOU MY MALE IF MY WIFE WOULD LET ME GET RID OF HIM.
>>(She says he has been in the family to long,)(14-15 years)

I remember seeing him at your house earlier this year....
Very nice.....
Maybe I'll make it back your way and find a male for her some day....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Snakes, all snakes, have different physical abilities at different temps.

The choice of temps is a behavioral match with needs and conditions.

Which means, what you said was totally based on A (the breeders) conditions and the conditions your keeping them at, not the abilities of the snakes.

Greybands grow as fast as anyother snake, if not faster. If their conditions are provided.

If your interested keep this thread going. And yes, I not tons of greyband experience. including consistantly breeding them at less then 18 months and still having them live FOREVER, plus 15 years, sometimes way plus.

Yes, there are answers to your questions. Greybands are such great snakes. Cheers

>> "I not tons of greyband experience"

*** So does this mean you have less than ZERO experience with gray-bands?

just havin' fun!..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

That was also a long time ago, recently, I have a beautiful pair of alternas that the owner got rid of because they were not growing fast enough. For me, they are growing like weeds and I should have eggs next spring. Cheers

I've always liked them too, and used to have them some years back.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I am providing them with temp choices from room temp (about 70) to 85-88 on the hot end. For the little ones, I am currently using paper towels as substrate, since it is easier to feed without them ingesting substrate. So, they can hide under it at whatever temp they want. There are also a couple of small hide boxes, and a humid hide when they are in shed.

For my 28 inch female, I use aspen, with a large cardboard tube (my wife brings them from work), cut in half, as a hide that spans both end of the cage. There is also a hide box at the hot end, and several rocks placed around the cage.

I have been successfull at raising cornsnakes to breeding size at 18 months. Would you agree that if I feed the gray-bands on a similar feeding schedule, that I should see similar results?
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Kent

A range of 65F to 100F works for all species of snakes. That is a choice between the low and high.

Of course with other reptiles like monitors and torts, we use over 150F for the hot area.

What you must consider is snakes or any reptile to not use a set temp to get to that temp. They always use a hotter temp to get to the temp they need.

Of course different species do the exact same things differently. For instance cornsnakes live in areas with lots of cover(trees), so they use ambient temps much better. Xeric species like greybands live on barren rock outcrops and go in and out or up and down to control temps.

Cornsnakes are without question a snake that works under people conditions(average). Give greybands a little choice and they perform well and will grow as fast as any snake. Egg to egg that is.

So yes, they will indeed produce at 18 months. My record production was 66 hatchlings from three 18 month old blairs. That same year I recieced 99 hatchlings from 3 18mon old cal kings.

At the time I used large cages with lots of choices. Now I do not get that kind of production. Cheers

I have not heard of using such a wide range of temps. I use rheostats to control the temp of my UTHs. I tape the temp probes, and also the probe for the digital thermometers that I use, to the glass directly over the UTHs. I keep the hot side in the 85-90 range.

Invariably my snakes burrow down through the aspen, or crawl under the paper towels, to lay directly on the glass. Most of them spend most of their time there, on the hot side.

So if I read you correctly, I should raise the temps on the hot side, then once they warm up enough they will move off it, to spend time at the cool end. I think I would be inclined to raise it to the low 90s to start, and see how they react.

Does that sound right, FR?

One thing I have noticed, with the adult corn snake that I sold recently, was that he was the only one that spent quite a bit of time in his cool hide. His warm hide was 85 or so, like all the other cages are.
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Kent

If these are small cages, if you set the temp too much hotter a range, you might be forcing them to the cooler end because it is too hot now,...FR is talking about larger cages that you can make much broader thermal changes in to give them the choices. In small cages all you need is a cool side to either brumate, or a slightly warmer cool side(depending how cold the ambient temp is where you are) to let them conserve calories/energy, and a warm side that is low-mid 80's for proper digestion. No need to get too extreme in a small confined space, see what I mean?

Say you had a a cage that was five feet long, you could then afford to have the very far end at 90 to 100, with hides from one end to the other, and the cool end could be say 40 like a cold garage, and this way, the snake could pick any temp gradient it wanted within that range, but small confinement changes all this drastically, and it must be a more delicate balance. Your low-mid 80's on the warm end in a small enclosure doesn't sound so bad to me at all.

~Doug

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Doug, I see what you mean. I have one ten gallon, which is 20 inches long, three 20-longs, which are 30 inches, and one larger tank which is 36 inches long.

It does make sense to stay with the mid 80's at the warm end. The cool end is around 70. This has worked for me for many years, but I am new to gray-bands, so am trying to figure out if the husbandry for them is any different than for corns.
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Kent

Thanks everyone for your replies. This forum is alot more helpful than the GBK forum.
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Kent

0.1 Hypomelanistic striped cornsnake
1.0 Lavender cornsnake
1.2 Gray-banded kingsnakes, blairs phase
0.0.15 brown anoles