Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been using a Rodent block for my rats and mice. Occasionally I toss in a few pieces of dog kibble and/or sunflower seeds. I can't just go to the feed store to buy a bag of block, they just don't carry it. I can buy, at $2 a pound, the kaytee mixed junk at the Variety store or Alco but just don't really consider that to be an option. One of the people at the feed store drives the 2 hours into the nearest large town for reserve duty and is gracious enough to pick up a bag for me when I need it. The brand I have been getting is Sunbonnet. I lost the slip off the bottom so I don't recall the breakdown.

Anyway, I ran out and while I was waiting for the reserve weekend to come up I purchased some 21% protein dog kibble and have been feeding that for about 3 weeks. Every body looks good as far as weight and activity but my females have dropped production from 12-18 pinks per litter to 6-8. I though it might just be age but even my younger girls are dropping small litters. And, all of my mice, including the newly weaned and those being raised up for food have developed very oily, dirty looking coats. On some of the longhaired ones the coat is thinning and I am finding clumps of fur in the bedding. There has been an increase in cannibalism of newborns, from

I use a 23% protein dogfood though thats only about half of what goes into my mix... the other half is made up of.. Grain cereals, Rabbit pellets, Sunflower seeds, oats and a few other goodies I find.. like crushed walnuts, some raisins.. etc.. I keep the dogfood in for protein and the rest mixed in for a complete diet. I don't believe just dogfood is good enough to keep production up but it does seem to help with the protein levels.
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Lucien

1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)

So, roughly, what is your mix. I really feel it's important to give a balanced diet that is correct for the animals involved. I was really amaized at the crappy way my mice look after such a short time and their main purpose is snake food. I'm not in an area where I can just run out and purchase rodent block but feed supply is 5 minutes away. If its not to costly and I can find a good place to store a custom mix it would really make my life a lot easier!

Marcia

6.10.12 mountain horned dragon
1.1 Nebr bulls
1.1.3 bairds rats
1.1 western hogs
0.0.1 atb
1.0 domestic shorthair feline appropriatly named "Trouble"

for food production; mice, rats, orange head roaches, mealworms, and European nightcrawlers

I take about 25#'s of a cheap dog food.. Usually Pet Pride or FMV (23% protein) and add to that 10 lbs of Black Oil Sunflower seeds, 3 lbs of Rabbit pellets, 8 lbs of oats.. (oatmeal or rolled oats) 2 bags of the cheap puffed rice/wheat cereal from the grocery store(Unsweetened)and a box of raisens.. Thats my basic mix..My feeders also get fresh greens/fruit, frozen veggies when I have them (corn usually. Its cheap and easy to come by)and about once a week chicken or pork bones from our dinners. All my females drop between 10 and 15 pups on this diet...time after time. With very little loss in condition. I don't have a large colony yet but enough that I go through this mix every 6 weeks or so and need to make new.
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Lucien

1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)

hmmmmmmmmmmm,

I feed cheap dog foor (Country Acres~ $10 for 50# at feed store) and I have seen what your describing, but only in SOME of my mice. For the most part the mice and rats are all fine, but both the mice and rats seem to carry a recessive gene for "Long hair" but I rarely get one past the juevenile stage. These Long Hairs are weaker in general, they have patchy/thin hair, usually look dirty, and rarely survive. I don't breed them on purpose, but it appears to be a recessive in my colonies that pops up sometimes. (More in the mice than the rats)

Maybe it has to do with strain of mice as you said your mice had long hair? Perhaps they just don't do as well on dog food?

Now~ I do supplement the dog food of mine, with rolled oats, cheerios (sister insists they need cheerio's as treats!) and I clean out the fridge on Sundays and give them leftovers. So mine are not JUST on dog food, but for the most part........they get cheap dog food and for the most part they do fine.

Funny, I was feeding dogfood and getting HUGE production, 15 - 20 babies per litter, all from fancies (my Swiss Websters were producing 4 - 6 per litter), then I had a chance to get some nice quality rodent blocks, and I thought why not. So I bought a couple of 50# bags. Immediately the productin STOPPED. The babies were being eaten. The mice started dying. Lost nearly 1/3rd of the colony before I realized what was happening. Took six weeks on dogfood before I got them back up to full production.

I think that mice are used to their normal diet, whatever it is, and when switched too suddenly they can react very badly indeed. In addition to the protein content you need to keep track of the fat content. The fat is probably what gave them the oily fur. And my long haireds don't do as well as most others also. Some have flourished, but most don't.
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~Sasheena