Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just finished cleaning all the cages, and had the "chunky monkey" female floridana coiled up in my one hand while putting in fresh substrate, and she caught me by total surprise as she proceeded to eat and constrict my hand..LOL!

Wasn't a big deal at all though until she started twisting violently with her strong neck muscles,.......then it DID begin to hurt some..LOL!

I just fed her stocky butt and the others nice big meals three days ago too!,

This was her first time ever doing this, although I've had to bob and weave to thwart a tag or two in the past with these guys..LOL!

Ahhh! yes, gotta love these "munch-monsters"!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

....hmmmm.....
.... begs the question:
Are you a man or a mouse??....

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Apparently,..........a MOUSE..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

That bite looks like it hurt!

See Doug, you gotta start feeding her breakfast, lunch, and dinner, along with a small snack after dinner, like maybe a small adult mouse instead of a jumbo adult, before bedtime, with a nice glass of warm milk, to help her sleep. HA HA!!!

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Genesis 1:1

Yes, I know,....I brought some rodent snacks in on a TV tray earlier, but she was taking a "power-nap", and I didn't want to wake her..LOL!

Guess I should have!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

HAHA!!
That's cool. She needs her nap. Just double up on the protein-rodent milkshake after her workout, and go from there.
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Genesis 1:1

That is what you get for listening to Billy (DISCERN) HA HA HA !

Sorry i could'nt resist!

This time of year that feeding the snake before brumation time must increase. All my snakes are eating more frequently and it is double time on all food for females. I was just feeding my animals and most were taking 5 mice or 3 chicks in a sitting. I concentrate mostly on the females since they are the ones who went through two cluches each and are basically STARVED! My males are a bit thin but that won't hurt them or stop them from producing sperm.

In the wild it takes some snakes 2-5 years to get enough fat (YES I SAID FAT ) on them to cycle and produce follicles by spring.

FEEEEED you snakes guys and quit with the diets and FAT snake talk. IT won't happen! It is a misnomer just like the word POWERFEEDING! If you are brumationg properly and your snakes cylce and breed they won't get fat.

How many clutches did your nice Florida brooksi throw this year Doug? Just one? Or two??

I had two 20" females double clucth for me this year and they were all good eggs. the females have to be fed to produce follicles. it is healthy and not bad for them like the term "Powerfeeding" suggests.

It also does not shorten their lifespan. *sigh*
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Rainer, I think you know I am well aware of all their husbandry needs. I feed her and the others VERY, VERY well. Were I'm at I don't need to brumate my floridana, and can feed them throught the winter too as needed.

She didn't initially get that big and robust and go onto lay nine HUGE eggs in less than two years, and gain all her weight back in no time from being "starved", lt's be real here, huh?.

Everyone gets bitten from time to time, it's the nature of our hobby,....you know this too.

You also know even the male is now 59 inches long and 1090 grams(well over 2.2 pounds)in his first 2 years also, so to imply that MY stuff is "starved" is ridiculous. Save that FOOD FOOD FOOD talk for someone else that posts with a skinny-ass snake, certainly not mine..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Two to three chicks at once Rainer? I have been trying to get my wife to do that forever!!! Ooops, wrong chicks. LOL! We should try to develope one of those self feeding devices for those Brooksi. Those things are beasts!! I do plan on getting a pair eventually because as folks who know me can attest I love to feed feed feed my snakes. I have been super lucky and only been tagged two times this year. Of course now that I said that I will be covered in bites within days. Doug, keep that camera handy next time you feed her, I would love to see her hand choke hold!hahaha.

HAHAHAHA!!,..Too funny..LOL!

I don't suppose my bite could have been from holding the other snakes too, ya think??..LOL!,...I usually always remember to wash thoroughly before doing the kings because of the other snake scent getting them worked-up,...of course, this time I forgot to do so, and sure as heck, look what happened..LOL!

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

OK, I have a question. What about the fat deposits you see on some snakes. I purchased an adult eastern a couple years ago and was disapointed to find multiple fatty lumps. She was plump to say the least. Alot of skin showing between the scales. Kind of ruined the effect of a shiney black snake. Does this ever happen to your animals? I have an adult male floridana that I believe would eat every day, it seems to know no limits. Reminds me of most of my girlfriends family, and yes they are FAT! Not arguing here, you've just got me wondering if I should up my feeding regiman. What do you think causes fat deposits ?

I had a huge ghost corn male many years ago that developed soft fatty lumps all over it's body just below the skin too, and these fatty deposits were from eating too much. I do not care at all about what some people may say about this either, snakes CAN GET FAT!

And also snakes that aren't females that need the extra body weight for egg production simply DO NOT need to be fed like this...period.

This same silly advice was given to a poster that had a small 20 inch Gray-Banded king, and was inapropriately told to cram as much food down it as it could possibly take in, to be precise, he/she was told two large adult mice would be okay...LOL!...HUHH???,...that is simply pure nonsense, a tiny delicate slender built snake like a 20 inch Gray-Band CANNOT deal with huge meals like this, and it would be just fine to do this if your main goal was to have the snake constantly regurgitate it's meals. ALL SNAKES DO NOT have the same metabolism, or needs, it is as simple as that. And someones "pet" male snake sure as hell doesn't need to be continually stuffed until the skin is stretched between every single scale either, this is ridiculous advice to be telling people.

Common sense goes a long way on this subject, and different snakes have different needs, it is NOT like adding oil to a car engine and needing to keep it filled all the way to the top line of the dip stick.

I've done some research on the fatty lumps in the past, and they usually tend to take a fairly long time to go down, but they usually do after a good while of watching the diet intake.

Don't go cramming as much food down your snake as it can manage to swallow at one sitting without giving serious sensible thought to if it "needs" this or not, and what are the goals of what you are intending to do with the snake, for example, are you going to need to pump up a female some for egg laying?, or is it just a pet?, or a male that doesn't really need so much?. Also what time of year is it?, are you going to need to give it plenty of food PRIOR to brumation in a very cold climate, so it won't come out on the thin side in the spring. All these things are important to consider, and every snake is NOT a voracious Florida kingsnake eating machine either. all these things must be considered as to what is really best for a given situation, and again, some common sense can work wonders here too. I've always done real well with using some simple common sense in most things I do..LOL!

hope this helps some!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I pretty much agree with everything you said. I try to "play it by ear" with individual snakes. If it looks like the snake is getting fat I tend to back off. Of cousre quantity of food must play a huge role in growth, but genetic potential for growth will be different for individuals. Sure snakes keep growing, but lets face it, most kings won't reach 6' no matter what you feed it. This being said, I still have questions on just how much I should be feeding some animals. I have a pair of black milks, almost 4 years old, that are about 4.5' in length. I wonder if I've brought them up to slow as the parents are 7 footers (Clay Davenport has some big black milks). They are still growing at a steady pace but when I try to push them a bit more it seems like I start seeing alot of white skin between scales. For me, fat black milks don't cut it. Girthy, yes, but all muscle. I'm gonna hold off on breeding them for another year. Hopefully I haven't cut back on their potential for growth in their prime growing years. Maybe they still ultimately reach 6' ? Any thoughts?

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean about the gaigeae maybe not being quite as big as you might have thought by now. For some reason, many other's have also mentioned this with there's too. Maybe it could very well have something to do with them prefering a cooler environment compared to other tropical American triangulum subspecies, as this could tend to be a factor in some of them growing a little slower than others depending on several factors.

They are definitely one of the larger milk ssp, and although yours isn't a 6 foot monster yet, even at 4.5 feet, as long as she had good robust body weight she should be totally good to go if you did want to breed her this year, but it certainly isn't a necessity that you do so this year.

Many of my friends from the "milk" forum also have gaigae, and they could give some age comparisons if you made a post over there pertaining to it. Several of those guys just had clutches of eggs and offspring this year too, and "D.Niles", and Rob Heineson for example have black milks that they posted that are in the 1100 to 1500 gram range(depending on sex) that are getting towards 6 ft, and they look very robust and stocky, and Daves laid a big clutch of huge eggs several months ago. His stuff is VERY nice and healthy looking, and also had some skin showing too prior to egg laying, but hey, it was a breeder female, so it's a little different especially just prior to breeding and laying eggs.

good luck with breeding those bad boys!

Also, there is a recently imported new bloodline of gaigae that is totally unrelated from the San Antonio Zoo stock like most ALL the lines are, including Mark Bell's too.

Her's a pic of Dave's that he posted recently, and it looks fine at around 1500 grams(just over 3 pounds). There are many other pics of them too if you go to the KS photo gallery to get an idea of what some other's look like. You can also do a image-google for a bunch of photos as well.

Anyway, hope this maybe helped a bit.

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Thanks for the info. I've handled 6' plus black milks that were thick yet not fat at all. I've also seen some fatties at shows that were un-appealing. I'm not really worried about it, but I do look forward to them getting big. Show stoppers for sure. Mine are young yet (unlike me) so there's plenty of time.

.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I don't have any fat snakes and i feed them all they can eat and as often as they want. I do have one fat snake in my collection and it is barelt fed once every 3 weeks. It is still fat. it has fatty deposits between the mucsle and inner layer of the skin. It looks like little fat bobs or bubbles.

I had another one like this several years ago that i got from my friend. It was a hybrid and he said it was feeding on to many fat fuzzies mice which he was feeding herZ) Fuzzies have a higher percentage of fat than adult mice. But it was not the case with his snake either , as no matter what i did this snake would not thin out. I barely fed it and hardly looked at it. Just threw water and shavings into the cage for months at a time.

What these fat snakes are is , for lack of a better word, a deformity. No diffferent than a snake with bulgeyes or kinked spine.

I still have that female brooks with the lard A$$ body. But I hardly remember when i fed her last. It may have laid two clucthes with not even a mouse fed inbewtween. I just open the drawer and close it real fast because she is so disgustingly fat. So I don;t feed it and save money. She breeds , lays eggs and still keps getting fatter. I don'y know how long this snake could suvive without a meal but I bet at least 2 years. Maybe three. It is a fmale brooks king and quite a whopper.

I really need to take a picture of it and show this freak . I also have pics of the hybrid that I mention before that had the same fat deposits all over her body. I did a autopsy and took pics. Thing is, I posted the pics here before but the mods immediatly erased them. But what the pics showed was the fat deposits were subdecaneuos (did i spell dat right?). rather than surrounding the ovum area. I think A truly fat snake would have to much fat deposits which will block the semen from getting past the fat beause that is where fat collects. In the ovum. ZThen the sperm can't get to the eggs to fertilize them . Now then there is also is a truly obese snake and one that has never missed a schedlued meal AND missed a few breeding seasons on top of that. All this happened to the poor snake because the keeper was afriad to put a male in with her for what reasons??/:

A) probably because she was to short,
B) or to young to coplulate.
C) he liked fat snakes

-all in the name of keeping snakes healthy..dum da dum dumn,,,,Hope ya got something out of it or maybe somebody add to these thoughts. something. ANYTGHING, to clear up this fat debackle

..ya right

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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Thats funny, I put the eastern adult I mentioned on a serious diet and nothing changed, she just stayed fat. The lumps didn't change. Like you I fed her sparingly, changed her container and water and just paid no other attention for months. I suspect this snake would've survived a long time w/o food.

I'm wondering how big/long some of your floridana's get with the feeding regiman you have. I realize the females are breeding and that would cut back some on growth. Another female eastern I had back in the day was around 4-5 years old and 3.5' and didn't grow a whole lot over a two year stretch in which she bred, laid successful clutches etc. I fed her alot and she was boderline fat looking. The following year I didn't breed her, still fed her alot and damn if she didn't put on 6" of length that year. She was known to grab a finger or two, but I have to admit, the season she didn't breed and grew alot she became much more handleable. Perhaphs I could have been feeding her more in her times of extra need/egg producing. At the time I always worried that maybe I was overdoing the feeding. Hmmm...