Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi- I have a question , i have a pair of mexican black kings that i got in 07 at the narbc in tinley and wanted to know if i should breed them in 2010 or wait the extra year? The male is a little over 3 feet and the female is about 3 feet should i take the chance and try or should i wait? How big do mbks get? I had a problem with an albino desert female that was almost 4 feet and this was her first breeding, became egg bound and died on me.
I do not want to see that happen with this pair and the albino desert was don shores stock and was heart broken when i found her dead.... any info will be helpful, i have been breeding snakes for about 25 years and never ran into a problem like that! Thanks

IMHO....They should breed with no problems if the female is fed well......
And in my experiences Egg Binding is usually the result of infertile eggs (slugs) or there isn't a suitable place for the female to lay her eggs....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Breed 'em, they don't get too much bigger....except Tom's ginormous female behemoth! I'll breed mine next year, pretty much the same size as yours. I'll be feeding her into November pretty well, though. As for egg binding, I think a lot of that has to do with no exercise, snakes sitting around and not exercising the muscles needed to push out eggs. I feed live for this very reason, not saying that those who don't can/will have issues, as obviously tons of breeders don't, but it is just my opinion. They at least get some exercise wrasslin' mice! The egg binding we saw this year was a big P.g.meahlmorrim female that pushed out one huge egg that wasn't good, looked good, but didn't hatch, all the other eggs died inside (I suspect), they all looked good when removed by the vet. The male sired two other fully fertile clutches with another snake, go figure.
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Todd Hughes

Sorry to hear you lost that big Cal King. There must have been other things going on that caused her to refuse to lay and succumb to egg binding...
I've had captive and wild caught Cal Kings reproduce at barely 24 inches, and Rat snakes at under 36 inches.

Your Mexican Black should have no problems at all at that size so long as she has what she needs.

Best.

byron.d

They'll be ready. I've got some 10 year olds that are about 3-1/2 feet. I've seen far more egg binding in proven breeders than with first-time breeders. I think a lot of it has to do with what the previous individuals who posted mentioned - lack of muscle tone and/or infertile eggs.

Tim

Third Eye

Size of the female is of much less importance than you think.

You may want to give the female a deep nest box filled with appropriate substrate, like coconut fiber mixed with a little sand, or sphagnum moss. Something the female can disappear into. And then lay a flat board on top of the substrate (you don't need to cover it all, just an area). My female Cals eagerly used this kind of setup.

Some females would probably lay anywhere, but I truly believe that some are hesitant to lay and continue to look for a good spot if they do not find what they want. If they wait too long, not good. A deep box of dirt has worked for my Cal kings and milks. Not to say other methods won't.

And of course, there may be other reasons it happens too. And not all snakes are equal in ability, preference, etc. I just think a good nest box is easy to do and may satisfy nest-site picky females.

I believe the formula is enough food, a temp range as wide as you can provide, and a nest box. Provide that and you will have eggs aplenty. Oh, and I 100% believe in keeping the male with the female over Winter. Something happens when that is done.

Snakes are eating and breeding machines really. It pretty much is what they want to do.
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Mark

Mark that proper nest box response was good, I forgot that, DOH!
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Todd Hughes

I had a problem with an albino desert female that was almost 4 feet and this was her first breeding, became egg bound and died on me.

Introduce the pair together during brumation so they can bond. By keeping your male with the female he will not miss her ovulation cycle and the eggs will get properly fertilized.

Also you could have bred your snakes much smaller. If a female developes follicles she goes throuygh the same process as if she lays eggs. Only difference is they are not fertilized.

I have a large collection of Florida kings and have successfully bred sevral females at 20"-22'. They even double clutch.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

When putting them together do you wait till they are less active or as soon as you start to cool them?I'm thinking of putting mine together this year.
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1.0 aberrant cal. king
0.1 reverse spotted cal. king
1.2 mbk's
1.1 florida kings
1.1 anery brooks
1.0 hypo brooks
0.1 albino brooks
1.1 normal corns

Wait until they are already oooled.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

OK.I have read about keeping them together and thought I'd try it this year.Do you keep them together when you warm them up?How about breeding time,just leave them paired up?Thanks for the replies.
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1.0 aberrant cal. king
0.1 reverse spotted cal. king
1.2 mbk's
1.1 florida kings
1.1 anery brooks
1.0 hypo brooks
0.1 albino brooks
1.1 normal corns

Do you keep them together when you warm them up?How about breeding time,just leave them paired up?

Yes keep them together after they warm up. That is the whole point so that the makle is there with her when the eggs are ready to be fertilized. Then feed them (espcially the female) as much as she will eat during this time. Leave them together until you are sure the female is gravid. Usually what happens is the female will ovulate and that makes here appear gravid. DO NOT REMOVE THE MAL YET because some people mistake ovulation as the eggs being fertilized. After you see she is getting bigger (it take 30 days for her to lay)remove the male. If you are not sure, you can wait until the female goes into pre-shed (in the blue) before removing the male. But you need to feed the female as much as she will take during this time. Some female go off food a 3-4 weeks before laying, some don't. She will lay in few days after she sheds.

After she lays feed the female right away. i usually throw in 5-6 mice the day after the female lays. remove whatever she does not eat. After she finishes her meal, reintroduce the male in her encloser. She will second clutch for you.

It is important you feed the female a day or two after she lays. that meal should be as much as she will take. This will cause her to ovulate and proiduce follicles. The bigger and healthier you keep the female during this whole proicess , the better chance you have of gettinga second clutch. the male stays in with her as before and remove when she is gravid. You don't want the male in the females encloser while she is laying because it may disturb her nesting process (look up threads on proper way to get a female to nest)or the male will eat the eggs she lays.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Thanks for all the info.I'll give it a shot this year.Thanks again.
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1.0 aberrant cal. king
0.1 reverse spotted cal. king
1.2 mbk's
1.1 florida kings
1.1 anery brooks
1.0 hypo brooks
0.1 albino brooks
1.1 normal corns