Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I use to be a rattle snake nut.Tho I have had a few vipers species over the years they were never my thing.Things change I have gone bonkers for American terrestrial pit vipers the last couple of years .These are from Randal and you could say I stole them for the price.Even better another friend bought them for me.They have been breeding a bit lately who knows they are only 2 years old.I love these jumpers and are great feeders that grow and grow

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Archie Bottoms

The darker one is a gorgeous viper, great pattern.
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Dustin Smith

Unfortunately we have to keep quite a few different sp/subsp before we can realize what we really like most. Once you get past the color and or value stage, and begin to appreciate the way this or that snake acts, and it's mannerisms, you know what floats your boat. I've gone through a few stages myself, and have found that I like ag. piscivorous more than the rest. Hard for some to understand; I've kept bitis, bothrops, porthidium, crotalus, and atheris. Plus I spend hundreds of hours each summer searching for them. I enjoy roaming around streams and swamps as much as I do keeping them.

I include the copperheads and cotton mouths and coppers are my all time favorite .I have one cotton and it is the first I have ever kept and I love him.I have had others but never kept them always sold them.I would rather be in the field than in the hottest models bed AND HAVE PROVED IT MANY TIMES OVER MY LAST 30 SOMETHING YEARS HUNTING.I have never collected a cotton in the wild ,live to far west but I saw a few one time.That is on my life list for sure.
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Archie Bottoms

A misconception is that they are 'water-snakes'. They live where there is water because their main diet is frogs. In reality they spend 99% of their lives on dry land, but in close proximity to water. Presently I have 26 leucostoma; I can walk into my snake room 2 or 3 times a day for a week and not see one in it's water bowl. Plus, once you get a wild-caught on rodents, they go from crapping every 3-4 days to every 7-10 days.

I keep mine exactly like copperheads.He loves his mice .
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Archie Bottoms

Only knowledge of them is an ad I've seen. Have always thought Atropoides were interesting, wonder if keeping these is particularly different.
Along the same lines, any experience with Godman's ?
I like Porthidium and these seem similar in some ways.

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give up television - 100% cold turkey. Leave what isn't real and go to what is real.
Spend time with nature, see the ground and the sky, feel your place on this earth,
see the trees, the plants, birds, animals, feel their life. And feel your own life.
Dr. William Pierce (paraphrased)

Very much alike in the keeping I have both and am wanting godmans.
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Archie Bottoms

I have kept Atropoides mexicanus and Porthidium nasutum. Both were exceptionally gratifying taxa to work with. I kept both taxa in good-sized semi-naturalistic set-ups, trying for bioactive substrates etc etc. Both would be easy in lab-type set-ups but they're both great candidates for gorgeous display terraria.

I guess you might say they're both a little dangerous because they get so mellow (one could easily become complacent with them, which in my opinion is the most dangerous thing in venomous herpetoculture). A curious fact about both is they're both "grab-and-hold" strikers, with food. Perhaps with hands???

The jumpers come from a little higher up so I kept mine on the moderate-temp side (ambient DTH ~ 78-82 F with a warmer basking spot). The nasutum I kept about 5 degrees warmer. All my snakes always get a night drop to the mid-upper 70s.

I've never maintained Cerrophidion but someone whose abilities I respect told me wild-caught godman's are a nightmare. "They just die." He said CB are fine (except babies are tiny...), just don't keep them too warm. I was always attracted to the godmani but never acquired any. Now I probably never will be able to, due to where I live.

Good luck. I think Atropoides are seriously under-rated. I also think they're a pretty good candidate as entry-level material, aside from the "exotic antivenom" factor. Small, easily-handled, great feeders, sturdy, pretty low toxicity and yield, etc. I think the same holds true for all the Porthidium, except the babies can be a hassle (tiny, frog & lizard feeders, whereas neonate Atropoides are decent-sized & will take rodents just fine). Both are available CBB.

Cheers,
Jimi

I keep my slenders in a natural set up bio soil and even bio degradeing arthropods very nice set up .My jumpers are going in one next.
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Archie Bottoms

This is the lock up

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Archie Bottoms

You aren't doing a very good job of talking me out of them ! How am I going to resist when my support group tells me how gratifying they are to keep ?
Really, though, I do appreciate the responses. There are so many times that the smaller, more easily maintained snakes are overlooked, this is just another example.
Along those lines, have you ever seen Hypnale hypnale in the hobby? Looks like it would fit the same niche as Porthidium.
Thanks again,
Andy
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give up television - 100% cold turkey. Leave what isn't real and go to what is real.
Spend time with nature, see the ground and the sky, feel your place on this earth,
see the trees, the plants, birds, animals, feel their life. And feel your own life.
Dr. William Pierce (paraphrased)

Those would be a dream snake,I saw a picture of a orange one in a book once,That is what I call a left nut snake.I am ready to trade now.
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Archie Bottoms

Hypnale, no, never seem them in the trade. I'm too young. That genus is from Sri Lanka and (as I recall) India, both of which I believe haven't exported live snakes for a very long time. Oh, there are probably some European-smuggled ones, or rather their progeny, out there but...no thanks. Actually, maybe there are some legal ones out of Tula or some such, now and then you see some neat critters out of there. (I live in Utah now, and getting permission to just keep native hots is turning into a multiple-year ordeal. So I've pulled my nose out of the exotics breeze; I don't really know what's going on. If I ever did.)

Ovophis is a genus that attracted me too, but...too spendy, and who knows about the consequences of a bite?

See the Gloyd and Conant "Agkistrodon complex" book for more info on a large fraction of the Asian crotalines. And of course, the newer Gumprecht et al "picture book" is a visual treat.

Anyway, unless you have a serious "collector" mentality (like with stamps or baseball cards), why go to all the hassle and health risk of working with Hypnale etc when their ecological analogues (and virtual aesthetic twins) are readily available in the form of Porthidium, Atropoides, etc, which as we have discussed are really under-appreciated anyway? And antivenom is also available in the event of an accident with them.

I kind of feel similar to when (for example) you're talking with a teenager who might not even have a driver's license, and they're going off about how much better it would be to have a Ferrari than a vintage Camaro (or whatever). And you think to yourself...only the trust-fund kids get to start with the Ferrari, and they often wind up dead or vegetables for their impertinence. And you want to say "Hey, why don't you start with the Camaro, if you're serious about this? It's a sweet car, still plenty fast, and you'll learn a whole lot about cars and yourself. Then if you still really really want to, after a while you can aim for the Ferrari."

Just trying to be helpful, and share some perspective.

Cheers,
Jimi

Never hurts to dream as long as I keep my feet planted in reality.The fact is there are some legal animals some where but you are right the parent stock is most likely smuggled.The truth my true intrests are the bothrops, porthidium ,atropoides, aggies and a couple of other American pit vipers.Sorry about utah there laws seem strict and I would move today.Thanks
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Archie Bottoms