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Pure or intergrade?
I thought pure adult speckled kings as had single speckles w/o baring.

This is a eastern KS snake about 40 miles west of the KS/MO line

This one is from SE AZ

These last two pics are from east MO not that far from IL

Brian can ya help me out here ?
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Doug L

Hi Doug,..

Yeah, genuine Specks(holbrooki) can also have lots of degrees of variation with bars, without bars, combinations of both, and even VERY speckled individuals can have a hint of cross-bar pattern to their scheme many times, it just depends on where they are caught in their very large range, and as you know, many can also be 100 percent speckled on every single scale with zero hint of pattern too.

where that top one is from in southeast Kansas tends to be genuinely pure, but if you go very far from that towards the west, there is a huge intergrade zone where it meets with splendida. All of Missouri is speckled territory, and one third of eastern Kansas is as well, but beyond the 1/3 mark into Missouri, they can become influenced with splendida. That guy looks real good to me as far as it's purity, but even certain intergrades can start to look very similar depending on the pecentages of influence from either they contain.

The other pic further down of the splendida with the sockhead looks genuine splendida as well, even though it's a tad darker than some, and in the very far southeastern corner of the state, they can also run into an intergrade zone as well with a couple different things being in the geneflow.

And the pics below that are certainly pure speckleds as well, and even a nice Red Mole(rhombomaculata) too..LOL!

Anyway, I thought I would toss in my two-cents on what it is anyway..LOL!

later bro!, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

The range maps I have show that is a bit too far west to be "rhombomaculata", so it could very well be just a real dark Prairie King(L.c.calligaster)instead that's with the Speckled king.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I also heard that there are holbrooki in E. Colorado as well.

reako45

Hmm,..The range maps I have, as well as Hubbs' book show southeastern Colorado to be an intergrade zone of splendida/holbrooki. And shows "pure" holbrooki to be 2/3rds over to the east in Kansas.

I'm thinking that probably some people must be seeing intergrades over in that area, and don't realize they are splendida x holbrooki. because these would look fairly similar to some of the patterning on genuine Specks in certain parts of their range.

Because from Hubbs' range map, it would be impossible for anything bu the intergrades to be that far to the west in Colorado. I would post it, but that would infringe on his book copyright, so I can't.

later man!, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

One of the herping videos on the front page shows such an animal, very convincing looking, but since the snake can't read Brians' book, it is confused, lol! Doug, did you mean sw in Arizona? I can't think of any getula other than splendida that could intergrade in sw 'zona.
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Todd Hughes

Yes, the extreme southeast(not southwest) corner of Arizona is splendida, and then west of that area becomes Cal. King territory, and a little north of the corner as well seems to be a thin band of intergrade zone with californiae.

layta!, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

.........nigrita just entering into the extreme southeastern corner of Arizona too, but not very far into it.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

That snake was found near Elgin ( south eastern AZ)this past august
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Doug L

notice the lack of head ornamentation, (sockhead) very little yellow, some have a little some none, (splendida) but all the specks I have found have had a lot. I did hatch out one this year that is the exception to the rule, all the rules. I'll post that one after a few sheds, I want to see if anything changes. But I think it's safe to say your Az. animals are splendida, your Kansas animal is pure holbrooki, and the other is definitely pure holbrooki. here's an intergrade from my neck of the woods.

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Todd Hughes

Yeah, I go right along with all the above as well.

Nice speck Todd!, love the yellows!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

gotta be cool when you can pull the bifecta or trifecta on kings! I'd go speck on the Kansas, splendida on the Arizona, (of course) and for DAYAM sure on the last one with the prairie king. I know I'm not Hubbs, but then again, I don't wanna be, lol!
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Todd Hughes

Hey Doug,

Your (my) splendida is from Santa Cruz county. Although it appears to be a pure splendida, according to Mr. Hubbs & Mr. Blaney, kings from this area are supposed to be intergrades between spendida & nigrita.

As you know, intergrades can resemble either of the intergrading subspecies, or a combination of both.

No Question that the caligaster is pure L.c.c.

It would make sense the kings from Eastern KS are pure specks, since the Flints Hill would make a natural barrier between the subspecies. I double checked Blaney's paper & didn't see any evidence that E. KS specks are intergrades. He referred to western KS animals. I guess I'll succumb & call E KS kings specks. (Joecop, are you out there?)

Thank you sir for coming around!!! LOL! I knew my little guy was pure bred. HAHAHAHA. Now if only I can find a little girl from the same locale for him to "hang out with". What county is your high yellow pair from Paul?

Joe,

Good luck finding a mate for your's. Hopefully you'll get lucky if you return to the same area next year.

I'll send you an e-mail regarding the locality of mine.

Paul

pure getula baby... splendida and holbrooki are the same snake...relax intergrade pppffffffftttttttt!
DAMN THE SPLITTERS!!!
,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

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