Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 1.1 pair of Red Ackies. Both the male and female are missing some nails and toes. The 1st clutch produced babies with complete toes and nails. Now, about 1 month later, some toes seem to be withering away. It seems to be genetic. Anyone out there have any ideas? Any help would be greatly appreciated. The 2nd clutch just hatched with complete toes and nails. I feed them primarily gut loaded crickets and once a week I dust with miner-all. They get unfiltered sunlight daily. Basking site is over 100 degrees with a cool spot of around 80 degrees. I bred many other species and never had this problem. Thanks again for any help.....Don.

Hi.

I doubt its genetic, in fact that doesnt make much sense at all considering we know the origins of most of the Ackies in this country, so thats out the window for the most part....

Perhaps take a look at your humidity levels, do you know what they are...is there a "they" or is it all one homogenous number? Stress also is a big contributer to that issue. Most of the information you provided shouldn't have anything to do at all with your problem. Also what is a basking spot over 100? Is it 101? 130? 300?

I have raised my fair share of hatchlings up usually I provide a large range of humidity, which can be 0-30 at the basking site and 100 in their burrows. My cool spots go as low as 70 somedays and hover around 80 on others, but the basking site always ranges from 130 to 175ish.

I also dont stress them out at all no touching pulling them out of the cage, handling or anything like that. Just heat and feed and watch....as they get to know you, they start to want to handle you hahahaha it turns into a rewarding relationship.

Cheers,
Mike.

The parents are brother and sister. There probably has been much inbreeding. Genetic mutations are well documented in reptiles, and a malevolent genetic mutation could very well be the cause. I have heard of others with this problem.
I have raised 16 babies in the past under identical conditions with no problems. I don't think it is a humidity problem. I keep half the cage somewhat moist and the other half drier. They choose the dry overnight hide every time. I mist them daily, twice a day during hot weather.
The basking spot is a rock stack in natural sunlight. The upper layer gets very hot (over 120) On very hot days I reduce the amount of light. During cold weather I use a lamp where basking temps range between 110 to 120. I am sure this is not the problem.
Other than the toes they are very healthy and good breeders( I am expecting a third clutch this year any time.)
I guess I will try increasing the humidity in the overnight hide. I have heard some give them a soaking once a week, I'll try that also. I really appreciate your input, Thanks Mike.

Goodluck,

Keep us updated.

Mike.

i can almost guarantee its not genetic. Not an attack on how ur keeping them, but i have had that problem in the past and it was directly related to husbandry despite the fact that the cage was kept moist (or at least i thought). I'd be willing to put money that you have a screen top/lid. If you do junk it and look into something that alows for less air flow. Check this top i made for my guys and has been working great.

http://pets.webshots.com/album/573707286hRxqvc

the setup allows for hiding at different temps and different levels of humidity (conditions of theirs choice basically) through burrowing. Don't bother misting that will probally just enhance the problem by getting them wet and then drying out again. Just dump some water under the hot spot/hide and it will create quite a bit of humidity and last longer than spraying. Soaking is ok but its a "quick fix" and if you need to soak them their is somoething lacking in the setup.

I know where your coming from, believe me i was going nuts trying to figure out what was causing my first ackies to lose some nails/tail tips. I hope this helps in some way. good luck with the babies....my guy and his girls are going through a rough spot in their relationship now and i think my male is in the doghouse..hehe

During the day if it is warm enough the cage has a screen top over half and covered over the other half. At night I close the cage. I hope it is the humidity, I will increase the levels in the hides. It is just a little confusing since I have had success with this setup in the past. And one of my concerns was too high moisture when designing this cage. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate any advice, Don.

Sounds like typical shed restriction leading to digit/tail loss, which gets back to subtle husbandry issues. There is more to it than providing a moisture gradient, both areas have to have a usable gradient. Perhaps a picture of the setup would help.

As for basking, wood works better for the animal than stone, and I would suggest providing a non variable bulb lit basking spot. There is too much variability to natural lighting, and it may not be providing everything you need. It is terrific for a supplemental spot, but not for a primary or single spot.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thanks for the info. There are also basking sites on a soil substrate if they so choose. I really prefer the rock set-up. After all the advice I am convinced the dry hide needs a little more moisture. I really appreciate your advice, Don.

Robyn writes
As for basking, wood works better for the animal than stone, and I would suggest providing a non variable bulb lit basking spot.

Robyn, what works for one person doesnt always work for the next it seems. My first year producing pilbaras I had problems with wood stacks and toe loss, after making rock stacks with old flagstone or shale from the riverbed I never had toe loss happen much anymore.I kind of thought the rough surface of the rock aids in shedding just by the monitor rubbing against it so it seems. Wood also gets much drier under a lamp, rock always seems to hold a bit more moisture and heat for sure.
Bob

So many subtle details : )

You are right, the stone works well for rubbing, and the wood does get dry.

The benefit I see is that the wood is not as conductive as the rock. They might be the exact same temp, say 138F, but the rock FEELS hotter to the foot than the wood does. Less comfortable.

Just like on a hot sunny day, your wood deck is more comfortable to walk on than the asphalt street, even though the temp may be nearly identical. A nice big piece of galvanized or stainless steel laying in the sun will feel even hotter yet to your foot, even though being at the same temp. You may not even be able to stand for three seconds on the steel.

At the basking temps we are discussing, the wood surface creates a more comfortable standing platform than the stone. Often you see the lizards tripodding to keep their feet cooler on such a conductive surface.

That is the type of detail I was thinking of, not the benefit of getting the shed off, which stone/slate/rock does indeed serve.
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn, good detail:} I see the toe moving to be natural in other lizards in the wild so it is normal I think. As far as rock opposed to wood, if you are keeping monitors indoors the rock holds some heat during the night cycle, wood on the other hand is an insulator and does not. I remember setting up my first pilbaras, I hatched about 16 and set them up in tubs with dirt and wood stacks and ended up looseing quit a few from either shed stuck on toes and complications with that [even in moist dirt] or dirt getting in their eyes and causeing problems. Newly hatched pilbaras weigh about 2-3 grams and their isnt much margin for error as is with some of the larger dwarfs. I finally came up with something that worked very well, a 10 gallon long aquarium with 1/4 inch washed gravel about 2-3 inches deep and an under the tank heat source. I would put enough water in to stay below the gravel [quit a bit below actually] and heat the tank on one side from underneath, this stops dehydration, allows plenty of moisture through eveaporation and a substarte that is to large to ingest or cause eye problems, CLEAN! I have never owned an ackie so my experiance applies to the Pilbaras,Gilleni and Glauerti. But this system also includes a complete screen lid for good ventilation. You probably seen this photo before but this is how it works.
Bob
www.herphatch.com

That is an interesting setup, nice.

You are right about the heat sink aspect. Subtleties, subtleties, indeed : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

I doubt it is genetic as well, I would question the husbandry differance between the 2 clutches. Could be anything, heat,diet,stress or handeling or caging. Food for thought.
Bob