Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I have been using small racks with uncovered tubs for the hatchlings. like this one...

But That is a ton of water bowls to deal with and I was constantly battling to keep up the humidity in the small tubs and dry Colorado air. Since the racks are adjustible I decided to get some new tubs that do have covers and I filled them with cypress, sprayed it down, and closed it up. There are small air holes drilled around the sides.

The water condenses on the cool side on the lid and forms large clean droplets that the hatchlings can drink. Underneath the large hide stays dry.

I kept two cape gophers and a cal king like this and they have practically quadrupled in size every time I look at them. Outgrew those tubs in 8 meals...

I think that set up is probably far more natural in the way most hatchlings would drink in the wild. I wonder about the humidity being that high constantly with minimal air movement. In humid Florida, every speck of organic matter would begin to grow like a Petri dish in a matter of hours. I would think that would require a lot more supervision and tweaking to keep the balance just right.

I had never tried it because I assumed the cypress would mold over. But they have been set up for a few weeks and not one has had that problem.

That's almost exactly how I've been doing it. I do still keep a small water bowl in there, and just use my wife's watering can to refill them when needed. I've been wondering why it condenses on the cool side and not the warm side though.

My 3x poss het male always poops in his water dish too. Makes cleanup easy at least.

It condenses on the cool side because warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air. The heater evaporates water into the air in the cage at a high temp. The air moves across the cage to the cool side where it cools. Now it can no longer hold that moisture so it condenses on the coolest spot, the walls.

Even though the cypress itself is very mold/mildew resistant, I would be very leery of long-term effects of a very moist air environment without much air movement. Snakes can often come down with respiratory ailments from prolonged exposure to very moist air if it gets "stale", although I certainly understand the air in Colorado being extremely dry, especially in the fall/winter.

Sort of a "catch-22" thing..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Snakes can often come down with respiratory ailments from prolonged exposure to very moist air if it gets "stale",

Doug,

While i don't doubt what you are saying because it seems to make common sense. But have you or anyone else here actually had this happen with kingsnakes?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Hasn't happened with any of my kings, but it happened to an adult locality Yellow Rat I had not long ago. It tipped it's water bowl everywhere, and the aspen got wet and had mildew from the warm environment, and it came down with an upper respiratory infection. It was doing the typical "clicking", "ticking", and mouth gaping indicative of an R.I... Aspen is very notorius for mildewing very quickly when it gets wet. But this can EASILY happen with other substrates when kept very damp/wet as well, especially when there is minimal air movement.

I will admit this happened after I didn't check up on it for a good while, which was certainly not smart on my part, but nontheless, this can easily happen given the right(wrong) conditions.

I immediately corrected the situation, and administered a wide-spectrum antibiotic, along with raised temps, and it got better within about 10 days, but it proves that things can go bad quickly sometimes with very moist environments.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I hate aspen. Working with it makes me sneeze furiously so I don't use it. So, I don't use it. Cypress, I've had it happen once in a while, but keepin an eye on the cage it isn't a problem.

Yeah, the shredded aspen can be very dusty many times too depending on how it is dealt with before it's packaged. I wish some companies that produce it would tumble most of the dust out before they package it, instead of just sweeping it off the ground and throwing it in a bag..LOL!

The chip form is certainly more course and less dusty, but it is also harder, and less absorbent as well,.....oh well, that's life I guess..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Assuming you have enough air movement that the snakes can breath, there is nothing wrong with "stale" air. There is a huge problem with keeping snakes on wet, moldy, bacteria laden bedding. I have never seen a URI from a lack of ventilation allone. There is always another predisposing factor like dust or wetness (not humidity).

is that wild kings likely spend much of their time in the ground where the substrate is probably dry but the air has a moderate humidity. So the snakes remain dry but they don't dry out.

So in captivity, perhaps a good approach is low ventilation and a dry substrate that doesn't suck all of the moisture out of the air?

I wish I could just keep the snakes in the ground. How cool would a giant deep cage filled with dirt and tunnels be? That would be fun to observe a group of kings in.
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Mark

done it with monitors...it's sort of neat to see. My old sav used to tunnel like a fiend

Right,...humidity is GOOD,...I was talking about it being WET and mildewed from the spilled water bowl, that is definitely what caused the problem with the one that I mentioned in my earlier post. I've never had a problem besides that one in my several decades of snake keeping in any type of enclosure.

I always put several rows of solder holes about an inch and a half apart in my plastic tubs, and living in central Florida also keeps humidity levels higher and more optimum than many other places too, so it also helps out for them shedding without problems as well.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I post this as observation, not proof of anything. I think we all know that our captives do best when given a range of conditions and let them choose.

I once raised juvenile Prairie kings in cages with a deep moist layer of coir fiber substrate. While the substrate did dry out rather quickly on the hot end, I would mist it often. The kings did just fine in that setup for a year before I moved them. They were always a bit damp to the touch in that cage. No fungus, no anything - I checked all the time. And Prairie kings in the wild often occupy drier soil types compared to getula.

They did have lots of ventilation holes in the lids, as condensation on the sides existed only at the substrate level. So in this case, good ventilation but a moist substrate had no ill effects on the young calligasters.
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Mark

what is "coir fiber substrate"?

Did you mean corn fiber? Never heard of that either. Where did you get it?

Always looking for new invotive ways to make things easier for me and better for the snakes.. Thanks!
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Coir is finely shredded coconut fiber-I use it in my dart frog terrariums. Great stuff!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Coir is finely shredded coconut fiber-I use it in my dart frog terrariums. Great stuff!

AH! Thanks man! I Finally got an answer from somebody.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

also good to mix in with potting soil if you're into planting; it's *really* mold resistant and helped cut down on mold getting my ferns back in college (I wanted my dorm to look like a jungle so...).

Adding to what Brad said, it can be mixed with some regular sand to stretch it and give it good tunneling texture. It can be mixed with potting soil if desired, but I prefer just the sand added.

I think it is the best for kings and milks. Others do not like it because it is like soil - gets in the water bowl easily, etc. Still, the best skin tone I have seen on my kings and milks is when they live in a cage with a layer deep enough to burrow into, or even a box of it in an otherwise dry cage. And milksnakes, when hydrated, look a brighter red.

Of course I live where humidity can get low, so the benefit of this substrate is especially pronounced.
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Mark

Adding to what Brad said, it can be mixed with some regular sand to stretch it and give it good tunneling texture. It can be mixed with potting soil if desired, but I prefer just the sand added.

Of course I live where humidity can get low, so the benefit of this substrate is especially pronounced.

Not to mention the stuff is heavy.

I live in the humid south. Summers here are very humid and the enclosers get damp inside and collect mildew fast and shavings spoil quick. I wonder if this would be a solution to changing shavings less?

What percentage sand and soil mixture would you reccomend, 50/50?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

I do have some small 1/8th inch holes in there--about 20 on each box. So there's some air flow. Just not enough to keep it dry, which in deserts is good (Amarillo is dry too)

Man are all you guys going to the same school for making those racks. I am getting jealous and want some now.

Zach, How do you heat those? Run a flexwatt where?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

np

I think this is a great idea Zach....
In my Applegate enclosures much of each snakes' time is spent in the moist side drawer that is full of damp spaghnum moss....I see awesome feeding repsonses from my Mexicana and growth rates are better than in the past.....I rarely see the snakes drink or soak in their water bowls anymore....A lot of their water intake is obtained from prey and humidity.....

And you heat your all thread rack similar to mine.....I use heat cable as well but I have it run on cup hooks rather than routing grooves.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

.....I use heat cable as well but I have it run on cup hooks rather than routing grooves

What are cup hooks?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Here's a whole page of them....LOL

http://hardware.hardwarestore.com/28-447-cup-hooks.aspx

I screw these into the bottom of the shelf above my tubs and to the top of the shelf the tubs set on......I zig-zag the heat cable through them...
The hooks keep from pushing the tubs through the back too far as well....The tubs rest right up against the heat cable....I get 90F temps on the hot end and 70F on the cool end......Works well for me....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Cup hooks are what you hang your stockings with on your mantle. ^_^
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Holly

1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Belle Gunness)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Fire Skink (Peter Dinsdale)
1.0 Vietnamese Golden Gecko (George Chapman)
0.0.1 Blue Day Gecko (Joe Ball)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)

Unless....It's stone....LOL
We use those weighted thingies with the hooks...Hehehe
Don't even know why we need a fireplace in South Texas though....Ha!
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...