Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Who uses them? If and when I get my hots, as I adore Crotalids most especially, I would always use them. I would obviously use them in conjunction with hooks and tongs and such. They in my opinion are not meant to be used on there own. That's got to be obvious to the old hands, but I've seen people do much more foolish things with venomous snakes.
I saw these "snake gloves" at Midwest, they offer ISEA level 5 protection, WHICH means the highest puncture resistance available. Expensive ($150 ), but moreso is 40 phials of CroFab, Heaven forbid. I would deem them a necessary precaution. Thoughts?

Cheers,
Joe.

Personally, I would never trust them. If I remember correctly, I think someone got bit by an Eastern Diamondback through those gloves earlier this year, which isn't surprising. -Jamie

ISEA Level 5 glove ratings exist for numerous resistance categories. These include puncture, cut, flame, chemical, etc. If you check the Midwest gloves again you will notice that they are ISEA Level 5 rated only for cut resistance. My assumption would be that they are not Level 5 rated for punctures. Also, holding or controlling an animal on a snake hook with gloves of that bulk could be problematic. Just my thoughts on it.

Kelly

I have had and handled tens of thousands of venomous reptiles in the course my life that has spanned over 40 years experience. I have NEVER USED GLOVES FOR ANY REASON. First I would not trust the snake could NOT bite through them. Secondly when you try to use gloves and a hook it's extremely clumsy and awkward to do. Personally I see NO point in even having gloves when working venomous snakes. Even babies might injure their mouth biting them I always thought. Just a simple snake hook in capable hands is MORE than enough for most species. The real key is an abiding understanding of the species behaviour patterns. Once you have that the rest is easy as snakes are very predictable if you understand the species you're working with...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

If you're using hooks for crotalids, they should never be close enough to get your hands. My suspicion is that fumbling with hooks in heavy gloves might be more likely to result in a bite to the legs through lack of control than to prevent one to the hands through carelessness. Of course, if carelessness is a problem for you, then it might go the other way...

Of course, if you're using Vision-style cages, it might be worth putting one on just for opening and closing the cage...
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

I suppose they are even less reliable than I previously expected. I saw a video of them needle- testing the gloves, which seemed almost conclusive. However, I know that snakes can generate a lot of force behind their strikes, I read a figure of 25 lbs. concerning a Bitis gabonica, very impressive. I knew that these were definately not the last solution to being envenomated, but figured they could offer protection in some situations.

Also, I don't think I said anything to imply that I would be careless, I am quite the opposite in fact. I (think) that the vast majority of envenomations occur when the herper, however experienced, takes a chance, which is something I would never do. Necrosis does not sound fun to me.

I have a passion for venomous snakes. Also, I have a lot to learn and experience before I own any. But that's why I'm here! I love to learn and am looking forward to keeping my very own hots in the future.

By all means try it necrosis dont hurt

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Archie Bottoms

Could you clarify the meaning of your post.

I do not think gloves of any kind offer full protection against hots. I don't know everything (even though I sometimes type like I do). I'm here to learn from some of the best.

If you are considering them to use on the hand that grabs the tail when tailing, maybe. They couldn’t be used for pinning and gripping behind the head. In my limited experience, the hardest to hold and avoid getting bit by are without a doubt your favorite, the rattlesnakes. They can twist and distort their heads like no other snake and darn near get you every time. There are no starter snakes that can quite prepare you for that, and it can be quite shocking in those initial learning moments. Some are constantly obviously trying to bite you the whole time, including trying something and if it doesn’t work, trying something else, then something else, like a chess match or something. There is no way you could ever get a proper grip with a glove on them, so the glove would be tested every time. They will bite it every time. I would recommend using tubes or maybe even cooling the snake if you have to handle it to remove an eye cap or something. I think the gloves are pretty useless. Get a mentor or get with people who can give you some pointers and share their experiences.

My post was only a reality check for those stupid enough to trust a glove.I was not bit through a glove but that is what a finger can look like after a good dose of copperhead venom.
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Archie Bottoms

Been there and done that and it's NOT a pleasant thing. The moral of the story is DON'T DEPEND ON GLOVES...thanks...A Copperhead is a painful bite. I have only had 2 venomous bites and both times freak accidents where I was bitten thru bags. I have never been bitten handling a venomous snake. The Osage Copperhead was MUCH worse than the West African Green Mamba...My whole darn finger almost rotted off with a one fang 2' long Osage Copperhead bite...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom-

Only two venomous bites? Wow Tom, that is something of which you should be most proud. After the life you've led, it really points to a high level of professionalism to have avoided any handling bites at all.

"War stories" are certainly crowd pleasers, I guess-but I most admire the guy who gets out of the war with nary a scratch!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Thanks Brad and everytime I say that I knock on wood [hit myself on the head] as I'm still handling a wide variety daily.. Hopefully I'll never get bit again but I'm not quite as fast as I used to be...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I have to agree with Tom, and I have seen him personally handle many, many venomous snakes.
I haven't been as lucky as Tom, having substained 3 bites in my long career, however 2 were minor and one snake (a Sistrurus streckeri, which bit the snot outta me) wasn't a pleasant experience and I couldn't believe a little snake like that could hurt so much!

When I managed Tom's business in Lake Panasoffkee, Fl., Tom had VERY strict rules about handling/bagging venomous snakes, and we never had a bite during my watch. However, after I left, an employee suffered a bad bite from a Burrowing viper, which resulted in a partial amputation of his finger.

Randal Berry

I did not think that you were careless, in fact I assume because you're asking the question that you are not. I was just making the point that gloves are perhaps more useful to someone who IS careless (and therefore maybe not for you).

This is, of course, just my opinion, I've never actually tried them with snakes, but I have some experience welding while wearing leather gloves (not as heavy as the Midwests) and find them so cumbersome that I sometimes choose to risk accidentally putting my hand on a piece of hot steel rather than fumble around in the gloves. (Gas welding, so no significant UV before anyone asks.)
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

This was and is the end result of that copperhead bite

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Archie Bottoms

here is my opinion.

i own the midwest gloves, the most expensive ones they sell.

a close friend of mine is actually the one who tested them while they were being developed.

i use my gloves on a daily basis.

the common opinion is that if the fang is longer than the thickness of the glove (which is the case 95% of the time) they CAN go through.

a lot of it depends on bite force and pressure.

cobras do a lot of chewing and anything about 4 foot or longer can get through if it is able to clamp down.

i use mine on hatchling snakes or ones with very small fangs (pseudechis weigeli).

as larry said, it is quite difficult as far as dexterity goes, but only in the beginning. you get quite used to it pretty quickly.

midwest clearly says "not for use with venomous snakes", and it should be heeded. it is still possible to batch errors.

i know a friend took a full on bite from an adult papuan taipan with the glove on and he was safe, i wouldnt want to do it though.

Chris, was your friend's taipan bite to the leather hand area of the glove or up on the gauntlet? Just curious.

Bill Huseth
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Venomous snakes---best hobby on earth!
Bill Huseth

it was on the knuckle of these...

http://tongs.com/snakeglove.aspx

not the leather ones.

I am currently searching for mentor programs in my area. The Wildlife Discovery Center is not far from my home, I wonder if that would be a possibility. My first hot will probably be a C. cerastes. I would familiarize myself with protocol and handling (by handling I mean using tongs and hooks). After that, there are several species I would love to keep. C. atrox, C. lepidus, my goal being a C. adamanteus.

>>I am currently searching for mentor programs in my area. The Wildlife Discovery Center is not far from my home, I wonder if that would be a possibility.

Be sure to check laws where ever you are. I know there are many restrictions to the north of the border and well I believe the entire state of IL requires permit for legal ownership.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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Actually I live in south- east Wisconsin and we have no laws concerning venomous ownership.

>>Actually I live in south- east Wisconsin and we have no laws concerning venomous ownership.

I would suggest you double check your city. Both Racine and Kenosha counties have laws against owning venomous. City of Racine is illegal. Beloit is also illegal, so be sure to double and triple check.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
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I bought a pair of Midwest Gloves when I started but after so many years they are still sitting in my shelf barely used. They are good for Beaded Lizards and Gilas maybe but not for snakes. You don`t get the feel of the snake with a really thick glove on and it is incredibly hard to control the animal. You can actually hurt the animal as well while trying to get a good grip. A good hook, a pair of tongs and maybe a few different size tubes for tricky things like shed removal are all one needs.
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