Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any and all comments/questions appreciated.....

When the Wendy x Rosco litter was born I noticed the babies were in kind of two groups, mostly normal and a few that were a lighter tone. Odd since none of the lineage of the parents is known to be het for anything. Now they have all shed and as I would have thought, the two tone is more obvious... hmmmm

Here's a couple of pics of babies 10 and 11 together for comparison..

And for kicks I added in a un-shed hypo baby from my Minnie x Diablo litter...

Sure makes me think there is something going on. I did look back at each breeders lineage and did find one possibility.....

Wendy is from my 2005 Savannah x Porky litter. Both parents are animals I acquired and Savannah is likely totally unrelated to anything else in my collection.

Rosco is from my 2005 Bullseye x Lefty litter. Lefty was an acquisition and Bullseye was a holdback from my 2001 Petunia x (Lefty and/or Porky, were bred as a group)

Bullseye was bred to Lefty twice but never to Porky, nothing unusual came out.

I'm pretty sure Porky and Petunia are siblings but not certain. They were never bred together by me but their current owner just produced a litter of all normal looking babies.

Clover, Bullseyes litter-mate has been bred to both Porky and Lefty - nothing unusual.

So, in the lineage there is only one possible link (for a recessive type trait) that I can find. There is a possibility that Porky is in the lineage on both sides. Known to be grandfather on one side and possibly great grandfather on the other.

Crawling through all my records, there are only a few instances of Porky offspring being bred to Porky or his offspring and this one is the only one to have something different pop out. Again, totally within probability if it is a recessive thing in which Porky was a het, only half of his offspring would have gotten that gene and only when two of those got together would any homozygous babies be produced.

Hmmmmm, does have me wondering what is going on. Have decided to hold onto the litter for another shed or two.

Pics of all the offspring......

WE-RO-0901

WE-RO-0902

WE-RO-0903

WE-RO-0904

WE-RO-0905

WE-RO-0906

WE-RO-0907

WE-RO-0908

WE-RO-0909

WE-RO-0910

WE-RO-0911


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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

If I make two big assumptions....

1)It is genetic and recessive (probably a version of hypo).

2)It did come from Porky, the only source that really works factoring in all my other pairings.

Then there are 1.2 hets in my collection...

Rosco (BU(PE-PO)-LE-0516) - het

Bullseye (PE-PO-01xx) - het
Wendy (SA-PO-0502) - het

Then a little further along that thought train - in my collection are 3.4 descendents from those that are supposed hets....

Pheonix (SA-PO-0503) - 50% het
Lon (BO-PO-0618) - 50% het
Un-named male 1 (BU(PE-PO)-OY-0822)- 50% het

Amber (SA-PO-0501) - 50% het
Lily (BO-PO-0603) - 50% het
Un-named female 1 (BU(PE-PO)-OY-0805)- 50% het
Un-named female 2 (BU(PE-PO)-OY-0827)- 50% het

Of course at this time it's all speculation based on assumptions, only time will tell if there is something or nothing there.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

pretty interesting thoughts dave. It does put you in the best possible position though to work out if anything is going on, having that number of holdbacks already at size.
Had you already worked out your breeding groups for next year?
Guess you might be changing it up a bit now, and having a 1.2 group of Rosco x Bullseye and Wendy.
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Dave

11.17 brbs
2.4 crbs

LOL...

"a 1.2 group of Rosco x Bullseye and Wendy"

is exactly the change I already made!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

first off they all look amazing
second i think you had a small typo in your one line of where you put a unshed hypo from minnie X diablo witch i think should read minnie x dumbo.

You are correct, the un-shed hypo was from Minnie x Dumbo, darn KS not allowing edits I won't be able to go back and fix it.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats