Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I do not completely understand genetics associated with lesser platinums. I had 4 eggs from a lesser x lesser. One was a cool blue-eyed leucistic (pic)/a lesser just like mom and dad/and 2 normals.

My questions:
If these normal babies ever breed with a lesser, do they have more of a chance of having lessers, than a regular normal to a lesser?

Also, I have read different things--when a lesser breeds with a lesser, what is the chance for an egg to be blue-eyed? Thanks--Jim

Lesser's are a Co-Dominant Mutation. This means they have a super form

Lesser x Normal : you will get lessers and NORMALS, just normals
Lesser x Lesser: you will get like you, Blue Eyed Lucys (super lesser), Lessers, and NORMALS
Super Lesser x Normal: All will be Lesser
Super Lesser x Lesser: Lessers and Super Lessers
Super Lesser x Super Lesser: all Super Lessers

____________________

I believe Ralph Davis has a hidden gene in his Lesser's.
He calls it the Platty Gene. A Platty is a lesser with a special gene. He refers to Platty siblings as het. for Platty. I hope i didn't just confuse you with that, it is kind of confusing..

Lesser x Platty: Lesser het. platty and het plattys

....do you catch my drift? lol

"Lesser x Platty: Lesser het. platty and het plattys "

I think Lesser X Platty would produce 25% chance blue eyed leucistic, 25% chance platy, 25% chance lesser, and 25% chance normal.

It's looking like Platy is a like the leucistic in that it's a combo of two mutant copies of the same gene. It seems that hidden is yet another mutation of the same gene as lesser/butter, mojave, phantom/mystic, Vin Russo, mocha, and special. Many combos of this allele complex are white like lesserphantom = karma but some like lesserhidden = platy and mojavespecial = crystal and mojavemystic = mystic potion are not all white. The difference is that hidden appears to be even harder (maybe impossible) to identify visually than say special but it has a big impact when combined with lesser. Also it looks like even homozygous hiddens look normal. Per this theory of no lesser could carry the extra hidden allele to make a platy because if it did it would already be a platy.

Argh! I got it wrong too …

Platy X Lesser would give eggs that each had the following odds:

25% chance blue eyed leucistic (homozygous lesser)
25% chance platy (lesserhidden)
25% chance lesser (just lesser, like all lessers no chance hidden gene)
25% chance hidden (looks normal but has the other half to make a platy)

produce plain lessers and normals that carry the hidden gene, or possibly carry the hidden gene?

1. Each snake can only have two versions of the same gene, one from mom and one from dad.

2. It can only pass one version of that gene to each offspring.

The two versions of this blue eyed leucistic complex gene that a lesser has are lesser and the normal version of this gene. So the lesser does not have the hidden version to pass on.

To produce hiddens and hidden combos like platy you need at least one of the parents to have the hidden gene per rule 1.

A platy parent can pass on the hidden gene but the same baby can't get both the hidden and the lesser versions from the platy parent because they are two versions of the same gene and that would violate rule 2 above (just like albino X normal can't give two copies of albino to produce an albino). So to make a platy you have to get hidden from one parent and lesser from the other. A hidden or even homozygous hidden parent can also pass on the hidden version of this gene.

i'm not sure if i understand what you're saying correctly. it sounds like you're saying that not all lessers carry the hidden platty gene and that the platty gene is heterozygous.
i'm not an expert but i don't think thats quite exactly how it works. i think it's a hidden co-dominant gene that when combined with the lesser platty produces the platty.
a guy i used to be friends with produced 3 platty females last year by total luck. he had a normal female that unknowingly carried the hidden gene and when he bred his lesser male to it he hit the jackpot.
here's a link to his post, unfortunately the pic isn't viewable.

Dave
High End Royal Pythons

oops! forgot to post the link.
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1566572,1566572&key=2008

Dave
High End Royal Pythons

"i'm not sure if i understand what you're saying correctly. it sounds like you're saying that not all lessers carry the hidden platty gene and that the platty gene is heterozygous.
i'm not an expert but i don't think thats quite exactly how it works. i think it's a hidden co-dominant gene that when combined with the lesser platty produces the platty.
a guy i used to be friends with produced 3 platty females last year by total luck. he had a normal female that unknowingly carried the hidden gene and when he bred his lesser male to it he hit the jackpot.
here's a link to his post, unfortunately the pic isn't viewable."

Please see my correction post for what I believe to be the right percentages.

I'm saying that NO lessers can carry the hidden platy version of the same gene as lesser. Some genes only have two known versions (alleles), like stripe and normal for stripe. But for some reason it looks like this blue eyed leucistic complex gene has a bunch of versions (normal for bel, lesser/butter, mojave, phantom/mystic, Vin Russo, mocha, special, hidden, and probably others I've forgotten or that are not named yet).

I believe that the lesser phenotype is the combination of one lesser version of this gene and one normal version of this gene. If the other copy isn't the normal version then the combo isn't the lesser phenotype.

I believe that platy is the combo of one lesser version of this gene and one hidden version of this same gene. In this sense I consider platy to be a two mutant allele combo like the mojavelesser = leucistic or the lesserphantom = karma or mojavemystic = mystic potion or mojavespecial = crystal. I wouldn't really call a combo co-dominant as that term only applies to the individual versions of the gene relative to the normal version of the gene. But hard to know what classification to use for the hidden version of the blue eyed leucistic gene as it appears that even the homozygous hidden looks normal. But the hidden allele does seem to have a big effect when paired with lesser to make platy.

Your friend's hidden female could have produced platy with any lesser. A platy needs one parent to provide the lesser allele and the other parent to provide the hidden allele. So it doesn’t need the lesser providing parent to have the hidden allele too.

WOW ! you have breed 2 lessers together without knowing what's the genetic background on these

Well, you sure need to learn more on genetic I think ! You don't really need it to breed snakes, (after all, I know my genetic but I haven't breed yet, hope it change now )

Lessers are co-dom morph !

A lesser, is a snake with 1 allele
A BEL, is a snake with 2 allele of the gene.

See it as a BEL is an albino and a lesser a het albino, just that the het albino is VISUAL in that case.

So the normals from the breeding of a lesser x lesser, are just plain normal. (Plain not in the meaning of "sad", cause I still like them, more in the sense of "genetic".

So, you won't have more success of getting lessers than from any other normal.

The only difference is the Lesser Platty, but that's just another combo, quite different in that case !

Good luck !
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