Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone working with locality Holbrooki? if so what localities?

Calhoun County, Texas.

-----
Todd Hughes

Those are awesome, Todd. Such bold yellow!
-----
---
http://www.mikefoux.com
http://snakerack.blogspot.com

1.2.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo, Het Anery
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
0.1.0 Corn Bloodred
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
1.1.0 Brooksi Hypo
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
1.2.1 Leopard Geckos, various morphs
0.1.0 Wife, Caucasius Mexicana

Thanky!
-----
Todd Hughes

I'm trying to get started on Calcasieu and Cameron Parish (Southwest Louisiana) localities, but the project has been very slow going and I've had some setbacks with my w/c stock.
I'd be interested in talking to anyone who has experience with certain feeding and skin infection issues that seem (to me) to be unique to holbrooki from these locations.
-----
---
http://www.mikefoux.com
http://snakerack.blogspot.com

1.2.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo, Het Anery
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
0.1.0 Corn Bloodred
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
1.1.0 Brooksi Hypo
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
1.2.1 Leopard Geckos, various morphs
0.1.0 Wife, Caucasius Mexicana

>> "I'd be interested in talking to anyone who has experience with certain feeding and skin infection issues that seem (to me) to be unique to holbrooki from these locations."

** WOW!,...that's really strange, I wonder if it's not just a certain person's bloodline that is carying these possible additional traits. I haven't heard of this particular thing you brought up, but there are a lot of weird genetic traits that go tandem along with other things, there is no doubt about that. I know of many examples of this, but am not familiar at all with the one you mentioned.

Hope you can get some real answers about that and continue breeding those specific locales successfully.

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I had a big male holbrooki from Calcasieu Parish south of Lake Charles for a few months and NEVER had any issues with him when I had him. I caught him trailing a smaller female at a job site I was working on. I caught the female first, but she escaped the makeshift capture bag I had to use at the time The male fed readily on f/t and was maintained in a plastic 28 quart rack system box with the rest of my collection. I had him for a few months and never had any health issues with him. I have kept several holbrooki on and off for many years that were captured in St. Bernard Parish, Orleans Parish, East Baton Rouge Parish, and even Pearl River County, Mississippi. Never had a problem with any of them other than some had bad attitudes LOL!! I kept them pretty spartan with aspen or pine bedding substrate, medium to small water bowls, and cardboard box hides. I guess you can say I kept them pretty dry for "swampland" kings and never misted them or kept moist hides in their cages. Pretty much all of them I offered f/t took it with no problems as well. I kept them at room temps with the usual heat tape/heat pad hot spot on one portion of the cages. It is amusing to me to see the interest on the forum regarding holbrooki. They are a sentimental species for me and were the only real "keeper" snakes I found as a kid growing up in the New Orleans area way back before internet, etc. and the availability of so many different snake species.

I'm sitting on a new morph of holbrooki right now that came out of the Calhoun county stock I collected. I'm waiting on this one to grow out a bit, but I'll let you guys in on it a bit, it is the opposite of a whitewall speck, a blackwall is what I'll probably call it. It was born almost solid black with a few red specks on a solid black belly, facial markings are similar to specks, (labials) but there were just a very few marks on the first third on the sides. Now it is getting very small cross bars, and I mean very small, with no flecking yet. I'm waiting to see if that happens. I got eight out of the clutch and only one other is anywhere like it, very dark but minimally patterned. The rest look like high yellow specks from Calhoun county, Texas should. This should be fun, I hope it turns out. I won't keep you guys out there too long, since I am the only guy with these, I'll share as soon as I can! I have shown Mom and Dad on here a few times, I'll try to get a shot of all of them.

-----
Todd Hughes

Todd, sounds awesome! I can't wait to see more...and maybe get my hands on some.
-----
---
http://www.mikefoux.com
http://snakerack.blogspot.com

1.2.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo, Het Anery
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
0.1.0 Corn Bloodred
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
1.1.0 Brooksi Hypo
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
1.2.1 Leopard Geckos, various morphs
0.1.0 Wife, Caucasius Mexicana

That's a normal Calhoun
-----
Todd Hughes

Kevin and Doug,

I'm from the Lake Charles area and always caught and kept holbrooki. They're a sentimental subsp. for me, too. Up until a few of years ago, all my w/c specimens would take mice and did well.
Then, about two years ago my brother started catching some that would only take lizards. They would go absolutely psycho when any kind of rodent (live or thawed, regular, scented w/lizards, de-scented, rat or mouse) was offered. Even the tamest one we had, which was really puppy dog tame, would go into a rage and strike at the glass or anything, including our hands, cage furniture, etc. They weren't feeding strikes, either. I saw one of them strike a mouse repeatedly, again, not in a feeding manner. They would hiss and rattle their tails (in typical holbrooki fashion) the whole time. If we took out the rodent and gave the snake time to cool down (a few hours), he would go back to totally tame, and would readily eat the anoles we offered.
The other part of the problem, though, was that the ones we caught quickly developed grey blisters that spread within a few days over the entire body. We lost two of the snakes, which quickly lost all appetite and became emaciated. There are no herp vets in the LC area, and I no longer live there. I instructed my brother, who is trying to help me with this project, to release back into the same location any specimen that develops the grey blisters.
I know the blisters would normally be a sign of poor husbandry, but both of us keep several (or in my case over 20) other snakes and have never had this occur with any of ours except for the holbrooki.
I thought maybe the blisters could be stress related, especially since they've mostly appeared in the individuals who freak out over the rodents.
What do you guys think?
I'd really like to start this project, but as of right now I only have one holbrooki from the area that I was able to keep.
-----
---
http://www.mikefoux.com
http://snakerack.blogspot.com

1.2.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo, Het Anery
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
0.1.0 Corn Bloodred
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
1.1.0 Brooksi Hypo
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
1.2.1 Leopard Geckos, various morphs
0.1.0 Wife, Caucasius Mexicana

Wow!,...that really is strange,...I still don't know what to think of that situation at all. This is something I've never dealt with, or have ever read about in all of my experience either. If they were shedding properly, and the cage was always kept dry, this is baffling to me as well.

It would be a good idea to somehow get one to a vet somewhere to perform a biopsy of some of the blister tissue to see just what the heck it even is, then it might be possible to go from there, that's all I can come up with.

There is still the possibility of a stress related disease too like you mentioned, but I would not have a clue as to how to find this out for certain either..LOL!

I hope it doesn't keep happening to you guys.

good luck with them!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

Your situation is very unique. My experiences with holbrooki give me the opinion they are pretty bullet-proof, at least as adults. I have heard CB hatchlings can be tricky to get started on rodents and most require lizards, or even other snakes to get feeding. I have also seen some receive a bit of neglect and not suffer with skin ailments due to less than perfect husbandry. In fact, all the holbrooki I kept were always likely to burrow around and tip over their water containers, no matter what I used. So, they would have to sit in damp conditions until checked for the day and cleaned up. I can see it being possible that the population from the area of LC you collect from has a food preference, but why the radical behavior from rodents is beyond me. I can see them not recognizing as rodents as food, but this population seems to be responding to rodents as enemies/predators??? Obviously the blisters would require a vet exam/culture to ID the cause, but I can see stress being a factor. Does this population of holbrooki appear to be on the smaller side?

here's my uneducated guess. The specks I see in the wild are generalists, they have upon capyure regurged rodents, lizard,(skink)and baby birds. I would guess that a heavy lizard diet could lead to a heavy parasite load, one they can't quite deal with in captive environs. While some attempt to treat with meds, it destroys all bacteria in the gut, leaving no good, fauna or flora inside. This probably weakens the condition and could help with the onset of lots of medical problems, actually increasing the ill effects. I know this is nothing new, I just wanted to say that I have found them above ground under cover thermoregulating in January and February, our coldest months. I have also found them overwintering in crayfish burrows in the coldest of times. It makes sense to me that they spend their time in a very bug filled world, but can utilize the temps they find to at least equalize the gut bugs. if spending a few weeks in a crayfish burrow doesn't get you bugs, I don't know what will.
Do they soak a lot in their bowls? Do they defecate exclusively in their bowls? That's, IMO, a sign of stress and a plague ridden source of microorganisms. It takes about 4 months of quarantine before I integrate anything into the collection. i try to get these animals as much of a gradient as possible and constantly change and disinfect the water bowls. i have the same probs with T-rats found in the same locale. The kings I have found don't show what you are describing, but the T-rats sometimes do.
I am not saying your keeping is at fault, but it very well could be. I haven't had any really bad encounters with plagues, but the first male speck I found in the area died in my care. We dosed it with Flagyl or Panacure, and I lost it several days later. I was really bummed, it had the most yellow of any I had seen and I had a walking staff commissioned after it. John, do you still have a pic of that male? I lost it in the conversion somewhere.

-----
Todd Hughes

Kevin, Doug and Todd,

Thanks for your input, guys. I'm going to keep all this in mind and keep on trying (as soon as we can find some more to work with).
Kevin, in answer to your question, this population does seem to be on the small side. I don't recall ever seeing one over 3 feet.
I'll post updates.
-----
---
http://www.mikefoux.com
http://snakerack.blogspot.com

1.2.0 Hondurans Het Amel
1.1.0 Hondurans Anery, Het Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo
0.1.0 Honduran Hypo, Het Anery
0.2.0 Pueblans
1.0.0 Pueblan Hypo
0.1.0 Corn Bloodred
0.0.1 GBK Blair's Phase
1.0.0 California King
0.1.0 California King Blue-eyed Blond
0.0.1 Speckled King WC
1.1.0 Brooksi Hypo
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet
0.1.0 Ball, Normal
0.0.1 Sulcata
1.2.1 Leopard Geckos, various morphs
0.1.0 Wife, Caucasius Mexicana