Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If an L.P. pyro pyro were to breed witha L.P. pyro knoblochi would it be considered a hybrid? Would they even breed with each other?

They would breed together.. Actually, someone here on the forum did this accidently this past season..

The babies are still nice looking but they would be considered Pyro/Knob crosses (aka. mutts)

~ Mike Russo

I guess what you are saying they wouldnt be much of a sought after snake.

Nowhere near as coveted as the genuine article would be of either one in most peoples eyes, including mine. There is no need or good reason whatsoever to do it when both subspecies are very easily obtained in the hobby.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

I did not say that.... BUT if your asking my what my personal preference is than I would rather see you breed these animals true..

~ Mike Russo

I disagree with the people here. I am talking strictly sales here. While i understand some of the folks here that crossing a sub species is not what they would want. but..

Most of the pyros and such are not true locale snakes anyway. It has been proven that these spp intertwine and have been bred over and over in collections to the point we really don't know what part of AZ trhe pyros came from and mnost that are into these things and pay a premiuim want bonafide locale anyway. That is apparant from the amount we see for sale every year on the classifieds and they still don't sell well. Unless it is a Hauchuca mtn king or something like that.

What would be more desirable for the market sales is what people think is pretty and unusual. These snakes are an impulse buy. And it is based more on beauty than someone searching out a particular locale. You see to many mutt pyros (I say mutt because if we don't know where they came from they are still mutts)and such advertised for practically nothing these days unless it is a special abberancy or hypo triat or locality info they are bottom buck and hard to move.. Both those are very common at shows and classifieds. Bred back together you would have an easier sale because it is doifferent and probably because they are more appealing to the common standbys.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

There will always be a place for locality animals, morphs and crosses, hopefully the market will force vendors to label all as what they are. If you can sell it, they will buy it. Just got to know what you want, where to get it isn't really that hard to find. I hope we don't cater to impulse buying, but I know as a human being I have done my fair share. I really only work with people that have a solid rep, and can back up what they offer. I used to think the morph thing was crazy, until I started collecting some in the field. Now a locality morph is what I desire more than anything. Lol, now if I could just trust anyone other than the few...
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Todd Hughes

I used to think the morph thing was crazy, until I started collecting some in the field

What morphs have you collected?
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

a reverse striped P.e.meahlmorrum, and a recently hatched L.g. holbrooki that seems like it may be a new morph, opposite of Tom's whitewll specks. I'm gonna go ahead and get y'all some pics of the clutch and see what you think.

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Todd Hughes

a reverse striped P.e.meahlmorrum, and a recently hatched L.g. holbrooki that seems like it may be a new morph, opposite of Tom's whitewll specks. I'm gonna go ahead and get y'all some pics of the clutch and see what you think

WOW-that's amazing. I had no idea. I would love to see pics of the holbrooki as i am sure others would as well.

What breeding plans do you have for the P.e.meahlmorrum? I am not familiar with the avaliable morphs but my guess is you want to breed that into as many different morphs of meahlmorrum as possible. I think you will find that these gentics only improve with captive breeding.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

There are albino, chocolate, and chocolate albino of P.e.emoryi, Great Plains ratsnake. This is the southernmost version of that snake, currently classified as it's own subspecies. the plan is to breed it to locality females and keep both the locality and the morph. It has successfully bred to both a non locality with the same morph but she became eggbound with no surviving hatchlings. Also a locality female was bred to the male and she laid two clutches, resulting in some noticeable abberencies in the first clutch. The next breeding will get some more possible hets next year while we raise the hatchlings from this year. you know the drill, lol! Then when the time comes, backbreeding to the male and some sib to sib breedings in the upcoming years. i'm going to keep this one locality until I prove it out, then, well, you know, evryone else can do what they want with it. I plan on selling them as locality only.
The kings I will post shortly, waiting for the batteries to charge, lol! I took some GREAT pics, but they were too large. I took some not so great pics the right size, I'm gonna try one more time today and see if I can get them up for you all. John Lassiter and Joe Forks have seen the original hatchling pics. I'm stumped on resizing them, afraid I freak it up in the process! look for the Calhoun county king post later today. here's mom to keep it on topic.

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Todd Hughes

Yeah I just read on another forum that you had a breeding loan. Wondered what happened. thanks for the update. keep up the good work.
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www.Bluerosy.com

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Todd,...forget all the nonsense with uploading to the KS photo gallery, that is WAY too much hassle. Get a free Photobucket account where you can upload THOUSANDS of any size pics, and post as many as you want at a time,put spaces in between for captions, etc...., it is the ONLY way to fly bro!

Just type in "photobucket.com" and start enjoying posting pics!

This way, we can all enjoy more of you pics!..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"